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Sea World
Topic Started: Aug 17 2014, 01:01 AM (3,464 Views)
stargatedalek
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I'm not slow! That's just my moe!

I disagree on one point, we do have quantifiable scientific data showing that behavior can be passed on genetically, of course as with most genetic traits its not a 100% guarantee, the experiments were done on foxes and were highly conclusive
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Posted Image Drax
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And I can guarantee that after Blackfish came out, they got put under a lot of pressure to care for their animals better. So no, I don't think everything from Blackfish is complete crap. I would also have to agree that we can't for sure know the exact thoughts of a killer whale, but their intelligence level is high enough for us to be able to easily recognize the most basic of their emotions, so we can to some degree understand their feelings and moods.
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Isaac
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In the wild only can provide? You mean the constant search for food? The diseases and pollution? Sonar pollution? In the last three months alone three killer whales washed up on shores all over the world and we still don't know exactly why. Seven adult Killer Whales from the New Zealand pod of Orcs's beached themselves and died last year. We don't know why. You make it seem like a Killer Whales life in the wild is glamorous but that is the farthest from the truth. Along with most other animals. Dolphins and porpoises are dying left and right and people sit outside of SeaWorld holding crude cardboard signs that read 'Free Tilly.' The fight is not at SeaWorld but in the ocean.

Those trainers featured in the 'movie' are all disgruntled, and only one even worked with Tilikum. Some worked there before he arrived and some never worked with killer whales in general. How are we supposed to believe these people? Why haven't trainers from today who have quit or moved on, came out against SeaWorld? Because nothing wrong is going on there.
Edited by Isaac, Sep 24 2014, 02:24 AM.
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Dr. Hax
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See, that's a point I hate that people miss all the time. People always say animals should be int he wild because zoos are horrible, but the wild is much worse for them than a zoo. A good zoo will give the animals exercise, put them in an environment that suits them, and allow them to fulfill their basic needs while also not making it torturously difficult for them. In the wild, animals are constantly catching diseases. Zoo animals ain't got none of that. In the wild, animals have to go on hunts that could take days or even weeks before they find food. Zoo animals ain't got to deal with that either. Zoo animals are essentially pampered compared to the lives many of them live in the wild.
Edited by Dr. Hax, Sep 24 2014, 02:20 PM.
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Ignacio
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You are putting in my mouth things i never said. I never said life in the wild was easy for animals or that zoos and aquariums should be closed. I'm pro-zoos actually (when they are serious) but i'm against the use of animals for entertainment in shows. Now with cetaceans i understand that the training is part of their enrichment but is also a good source of profit and you can't deny that. What i meant is that in the wild these animals have the chance to live in large groups, fully developing their complex social behaviours (that they need to survive) and their intelligence. All the animals dying that you mentioned are dying not because of nature but because of human causes, so is a completly different subject you are talking about. An animal will always be better in their natural environment than confined in a huge tank, no matter what you like to think.

And of course animals catch diseases in the wild. Is part of the life of a living thing. They also get sicks in zoos no matter how good the care is, as so do humans regularly... otherwise we wouldn't need doctors or hospitals at all, so that argument is completly stupid.
Edited by Ignacio, Sep 24 2014, 02:32 PM.
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Posted Image Azrael
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Are you also going to overlook all of the whales who have died in captivity, the recent two calves of Kohana (the whale's) have died and were related to 22 of the 25 whales they own.

Life in the wild is not glamorous but it doesn't excuse Seaworld's awful track record either. To me it sounds alot like your just one-sided and pro-Sea World because you've seen a shown in person and it touched your heart, which isn't wrong but isn't a reason to excuse all of the bad they've done to these whales.
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Ignacio
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Well i can't talk about Sea World. I've never been there nor i know how they treat their animals (like i said i haven't even saw Blackfish nor i plan to do it). I'm talking about cetaceans in captivity in general.
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Orca Freak
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Killer Whales rule the World

Kohana
Sep 24 2014, 02:41 PM
Are you also going to overlook all of the whales who have died in captivity, the recent two calves of Kohana (the whale's) have died and were related to 22 of the 25 whales they own.
As far as I know, Kohana has only two calves: Adan, who will turn 4 in October (so he's still alive); and Vicky, who died at the age of 10 months.

So, I'm kind of wondering which the second calf is that died ;)
Edited by Orca Freak, Sep 24 2014, 03:32 PM.
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Posted Image Azrael
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I just know sometime late last year I think they mentioned Kohana giving birth and a calf dying and the news report said an earlier calf of her's she rejected and it ended up dying.

But maybe it was a faulty report, either way. Sea World's whales have an average of what, 25 years while those whales in the wild who have such an awful life live to around seventy or eighty.
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stargatedalek
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I'm not slow! That's just my moe!

obviously its not a perfect facility, and there are plenty of problems going on, but that doesn't change the fact that the interviews in Blackfish are untrustworthy

hypothetically its entirely possible for a captive environment to be superior to a wild environment, thats not what these dolphins are getting, but it is possible hypothetically
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Posted Image Azrael
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When the animal's average lifespan is cut down to nearly a third of what it should be, something is extremely wrong.
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Dr. Hax
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Everybody, calm down, i wasn't talking to anybody in this topic, I was just addressing the animal right extremists like those nutjobs at PETA.
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stargatedalek
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I'm not slow! That's just my moe!

Kohana
Sep 24 2014, 07:32 PM
When the animal's average lifespan is cut down to nearly a third of what it should be, something is extremely wrong.
I never said otherwise, so I really don't get your point?
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Isaac
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We seem to forget that the NOAA did a report on lifespans on Killer Whales. Males live an average of 30 and females an average of 50, but yes they can live older. Corky is fifty. Kasatka, Ulises, Tilikum and Katina are all over the age of thirty and we're captured from the wild.

Someone said 'only the wild can provide.' And no. I'm a psychology student minoring in zoology and currently studying killer whales and dolphins and hopefully one day will become a SeaWorld trainer. The shows do change people, ask any person that goes to one in person.

I'll never forget looking over at a little girl.. probably age four or so and when Katina jumped out of the water for the first part of the show the biggest smile lit up on her face and it didn't come off, even after the show was over. I saw the same little girl and her parents at the next show as well with that same bright and happy smile. That smile will guide her into a world of caring about the environment, her friends, her family, her pets, etc. It's such a beautiful thing to see.

Also... Kohana heres something that I think we all need to understand. In the 60's and early 70's these animals were used as target practice by the U.S. Navy. Shooting them with machine guns. When we first captured them, we still knew nothing about them. Sure.. SeaWorld and marine parks had a past but don't we as human beings have a past too? Doesn't all zoo's and aquariums have a past? As the years have gone on the animals are living longer and we are learning so much about them. We now know thanks to SeaWorld that Killer Whale's can adapt to different dialects. That is absolutely amazing.

Also no... there was never a third calf. It was just the two. The only way we can relate Loro Parque to SeaWorld is by its whales. Otherwise they are two completely different parks and two completely different operations on two completely different parts of the world.


Also I would love if all of you read this article, written by a mother who took her son to SeaWorld. It's going viral. Here.
Edited by Isaac, Sep 25 2014, 02:14 AM.
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Fluffs
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Pull my finger!

Back then, many of the zoos we know today were well, today's people would say dark.


AZA-accredited zoos back in the 1800's-through even the '80s were not high in animal welfare terms. Big cats, elephants, apes, etc. we're taken by the wild in the tens of hundreds. Live feeding with goats, cows and chickens were used. There were animals performing unnatural tricks. Don't forget how the majority of animals lived in nothing but dark, sterile concrete cages.

Think about that.
Edited by Fluffs, Sep 25 2014, 03:52 PM.
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