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Enantiornithe wings in amber
Topic Started: Jun 29 2016, 02:46 PM (1,193 Views)
heliosphoros
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http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2016/160628/ncomms12089/full/ncomms12089.html
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Okeanos
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Ooh that's quite a find :o it's a shame, because I can guarantee some people will try and claim we can clone dinosaurs now we have something in amber >.>
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the dark phoenix
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King of wonderlandia

Okeanos
Jun 29 2016, 03:03 PM
Ooh that's quite a find :o it's a shame, because I can guarantee some people will try and claim we can clone dinosaurs now we have something in amber >.>
Opposite birds ruling the earth once more!


Kidding. I can see Paleo artists loving this up. I heard somewhere that it was two bird in amber.
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Posted Image Flish
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Also interesting is that apparently it's smaller than a bee hummingbird.
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heliosphoros
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That's probably because its a hatchling, though
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stargatedalek
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I'm not slow! That's just my moe!

heliosphoros
Jun 29 2016, 04:26 PM
That's probably because its a hatchling, though
Hatchling might be a bit of a bold phrasing, the wings were nearly (if not barely) developed enough for flight, and by the time they fledge most birds are near adult size (with the exception of raptors and ratites).
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babehunter1324
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stargatedalek
Jun 29 2016, 05:25 PM
heliosphoros
Jun 29 2016, 04:26 PM
That's probably because its a hatchling, though
Hatchling might be a bit of a bold phrasing, the wings were nearly (if not barely) developed enough for flight, and by the time they fledge most birds are near adult size (with the exception of raptors and ratites).
Aren't there some species of Megapodes and other Galliformes which are born with fully developed wing feathers and which can fly within days or weeks from birth?

Considering that we know non avian Dinosaurs tended to be very precocial it isn't that farfetched to think they pennaraptorans developed their primaries and secondaries very early on, and Enantiornithes had apparently a more similar metabolysm and onthogenic development to non avian Dinosaurs than modern birds.
Edited by babehunter1324, Jun 29 2016, 07:10 PM.
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stargatedalek
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I'm not slow! That's just my moe!

While all true, enantiornithes are still an arboreal group that above all else most likely nested in trees and fed their young similarly to modern birds. This more so than general behavioral trends is what often dictates the rate of development in modern birds.

If there were solely primary and secondary feathers present I would concur, but the presence of a partially developed alula, and lack of down feathers along the leading edge of the wing support the idea of a fledgling or near fledgling.
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babehunter1324
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stargatedalek
Jun 29 2016, 08:01 PM
Enantiornithes are still an arboreal group that above all else most likely nested in trees and fed their young similarly to modern birds.
I might be wrong with this one but I do recall to had read something about Enantiornithes nesting in a similar fashion to modern Megapodes...

Edit: Found it http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00114-012-0917-1

In any case we had pretty concrete evidence from Yixian and the Djadochta formation that Enantiornithes were superprecocial and likely didn't have much if any parental care. Also they seem to had been able to fly and might even had reached sexual maturity long before reaching their maximum size as it's usually the case in non avian Dinosaurs.
Edited by babehunter1324, Jun 30 2016, 03:52 AM.
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heliosphoros
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stargatedalek
Jun 29 2016, 05:25 PM
heliosphoros
Jun 29 2016, 04:26 PM
That's probably because its a hatchling, though
Hatchling might be a bit of a bold phrasing, the wings were nearly (if not barely) developed enough for flight, and by the time they fledge most birds are near adult size (with the exception of raptors and ratites).

Did you read the article?

Enantiornithes, like modern megapodes, were superprecocial and could fly from birth. This has been known for a while, now vindicated by these findings.
Edited by heliosphoros, Jun 30 2016, 07:29 AM.
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stargatedalek
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I'm not slow! That's just my moe!

babehunter1324
Jun 30 2016, 03:46 AM
stargatedalek
Jun 29 2016, 08:01 PM
Enantiornithes are still an arboreal group that above all else most likely nested in trees and fed their young similarly to modern birds.
I might be wrong with this one but I do recall to had read something about Enantiornithes nesting in a similar fashion to modern Megapodes...

Edit: Found it http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00114-012-0917-1

In any case we had pretty concrete evidence from Yixian and the Djadochta formation that Enantiornithes were superprecocial and likely didn't have much if any parental care. Also they seem to had been able to fly and might even had reached sexual maturity long before reaching their maximum size as it's usually the case in non avian Dinosaurs.
First I'd heard of this, very interesting read thank you.

heliosphoros
Jun 30 2016, 07:29 AM
stargatedalek
Jun 29 2016, 05:25 PM
heliosphoros
Jun 29 2016, 04:26 PM
That's probably because its a hatchling, though
Hatchling might be a bit of a bold phrasing, the wings were nearly (if not barely) developed enough for flight, and by the time they fledge most birds are near adult size (with the exception of raptors and ratites).

Did you read the article?

Enantiornithes, like modern megapodes, were superprecocial and could fly from birth. This has been known for a while, now vindicated by these findings.
Yes I did read the article, but I hadn't ever heard about this before so I toke these findings to be based on the visible development in this specimen itself.

What I don't understand is how fledging early on means for certain this bird wasn't near adult size. Wouldn't it rather suggest that this specimens developmental state can't accurately predict its development relative to any probable adult size? Seems to me this only leaves it open to interpretation.
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heliosphoros
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For one thing they're remarkeably small, and seem to have some ontological characteristics associated with younger specimens. It makes more sense that this is a flying hatchling than some extremely small adult or subadult bird.
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stargatedalek
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I'm not slow! That's just my moe!

What I'm saying is isn't it equally plausible that in addition to fledging early they also grew fast? Most birds grow to adult size before developing adult skeletal traits.

None of this at all relates to my original point, which is that this specimen doesn't necessarily not represent an average size of the species.
Edited by stargatedalek, Jun 30 2016, 04:11 PM.
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heliosphoros
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Enantiornithes grew much slower than modern birds, taking severla years to reach maxium size. This probably correlates to their superprecocial nature, as pterosaurs and modern megapodes have similar growth cycles.
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babehunter1324
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^^ Also most non avian Dinosaurs.

Which fits quite nicelly with the fact that Enantiornithes also had a more similar metabolysn to non avian Dinosaurs than to most modern birds.
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