Shoot a firework rocket ~ Winners!Make a forum zoo! |
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| New Zoo Game | |
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| Topic Started: Jul 2 2016, 03:34 AM (11,914 Views) | |
| LC Creations | Sep 8 2016, 10:20 AM Post #76 |
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What? Are you sure this is real? |
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| NICKFOU | Sep 8 2016, 10:56 AM Post #77 |
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ZTF means : "Zoo Tycoon Friends" and was a mobile game (It has been shut down in april 2015) http://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-will-euthanize-zoo-tycoon-friends-april-28 |
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| HENDRIX | Sep 8 2016, 11:02 AM Post #78 |
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You don't need a realtime UI to create a test environment for animal AI development. |
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Sep 8 2016, 11:04 AM Post #79 |
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I have been wanting to make My own personal Zoo game for quite a while but I cannot find any type of indie game program that is good enough that is easy to enough to learn to use and free/cheap enough |
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| LC Creations | Sep 8 2016, 11:17 AM Post #80 |
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You need a button so that way you don't have to redesign and move the coding to another place though. |
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| Iben | Sep 8 2016, 11:40 AM Post #81 |
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There'll be no foot-walking! Just air-flying!
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There's nothing wrong with refactoring and moving around code. As a professional programmer, I'd even strongly advice anyone to make/use test environments in which you try out your code before you go over to the real deal. Wasting your time on the easy stuff now without testing out the core aspects of your program is just not-done. I understand that you are able to code, but from what I've read so far you have very little experience with the developing process. You're rushing into something blindly without giving it much thought at this point. Being able to code is one thing, understanding the development process behind games and other programs is something else completely. |
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| LC Creations | Sep 8 2016, 11:45 AM Post #82 |
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But I have made many softwares you just do one thing at a time right? |
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| Whalebite | Sep 8 2016, 11:56 AM Post #83 |
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I would say thinking about it, just make various 3d shapes and give them ai and movement, like earlier, like prehistoric kingdom started out, with dinosaurs walking on a blank map put into the code, but because you should start with ai I would use the shapes as my base to get right into the project, this way you will have all your most complicated coding, also I would make a simple fence (just a plane) and give avoidance ai, which has been one of my problems with zt2, animals will just walk into fences, also a base tree (just a cone with a cylinder trunk) and perhaps a grass to code feeding ai, with all this you can code your most complicated ai, and then let the community see the results of different senarios, one of a zoo, the other a wild ecosystem, so we can watch the red ball hunt the blue cube herd or mark its territory in the enclosure. then make guest and staff (cubes with sheres on top) can see a fully functioning world a 3d objects, then make a 3d fully animated animals, and finally an ai (these last 2 could be in any order, but a think the animated animal is much harder than any UI. make one thing at a time but start with the hard stuff, its like university, they give you all the hard stuff right off the bat, all the fun and flashy classes come at the end. Edited by Whalebite, Sep 8 2016, 11:59 AM.
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| Iben | Sep 8 2016, 11:56 AM Post #84 |
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There'll be no foot-walking! Just air-flying!
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I've made tons of software too. But that doesn't magically make me a developer ![]() What you need is extremely careful planning, you'll need a full analysis of what you want to do and create well thought-out models ( and with the models I mean UML diagrams, being class diagrams and others), think of forms of code-testing like UNIT-tests, etc. In case of complex AI like this, this will take about 6 months to even a year. The next phase will be dividing things up in sprints and constantly work in an incremental fashion where you start with the real basics ( aka the AI) and then go on and add the "fancy nice stuff" like UI. Think before you code. Don't just go and start on whatever pops in your head. Think. Plan. Ask help. A project this big requires extremely careful planning. And that's what you'll have to do if you want to succeed.
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| LC Creations | Sep 8 2016, 12:27 PM Post #85 |
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Well I want my game to be just like Zoo Tycoon. The user interface, animal behaviors, the way you use it, and all. But unity would create better graphics. Well thought out models like knowing how to animate them and how to create them so you can animate them correctly. Like not just making a one peice mesh but s mesh with several peices so you can animate certian ones but not others. And also know how runtime AI information will be stored and where! Then how the game will load saved games? How the AI will create random acts and how guests react to a very specific animal behavior at a specific event that I will have to create and make the software recognize while all the time some things are not in the code of the exe by are stored in the game directory. I know I have to figure out now how I'm going to Laos a saved game and how it will affect the game. How long will it take for the game to load and will it crash? Yes No Edited by LC Creations, Sep 8 2016, 12:34 PM.
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| HENDRIX | Sep 8 2016, 01:11 PM Post #86 |
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All these things you've mentioned are not really the AI. They are important, no doubt, but the AI remains on another level. Considering you never even designed new behaviors, it is understandable that you don't acknowledge the difficulty of AI and admit priority to other aspects. AI development is really a science of its own, worthy of thousands of research papers and funding. It simply dwarfs all the rest. |
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| LC Creations | Sep 8 2016, 01:13 PM Post #87 |
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So then what is the AI? Is it coded within the software exe or what? Why can't I make an AI with the C# code the way I explained? There's no other way it can be made? Obviously I don't get t then. I thought artificial intelligence itself was the computer knowing what to do when a certian thing takes place and how long to show the result and how and what the result. I thought t was just programming. Edited by LC Creations, Sep 8 2016, 01:24 PM.
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| HENDRIX | Sep 8 2016, 01:27 PM Post #88 |
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The AI (Artificial Intelligence) in its narrowest sense is what makes animals behave in a plausible way. It takes all the variables and makes decisions. There are various ways how AIs can be programmed for video games, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence_(video_games) and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavior_model ZT2 uses a finite state machine architecture, ie. you have a limited number of static tasks. Currently behavior trees are probably the state of the art, while machine learning AI ir rarely used in production because it is even more difficult to control than the rest. Edited by HENDRIX, Sep 8 2016, 01:41 PM.
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| LC Creations | Sep 8 2016, 01:36 PM Post #89 |
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So I can't just use my own programming techniques then within the exe that read the files outside of it? |
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| Iben | Sep 8 2016, 01:45 PM Post #90 |
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There'll be no foot-walking! Just air-flying!
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Although I might end up looking like a know-it-all; but I'll just have to deconstruct this post.
This is not an analysis of what you want. In developing terms, this is nothing. You know nothing from this statement, it gives no information on where you want to go. Google and study object-oriented analysis and things like domain models, feature-driven development etc. That will give you a decent analysis with clear and detailed idea of what you want and how you will achieve it. A decent analysis is the base of any big software project. Game development is even harder than regular software development, so you really need this.
Did you read any further than the line "well-thought out models" ? Because seriously, I mentioned what I meant with that. UML Diagrams are quite important in software development, given that they are the cornerstone of your classes. Not only is this extremely useful for bugfixing, structure, and unit-testing; well thought out models can be used to auto-generate a lot of your classes, methods and variables. It does a lot of work for you, and it should be some you should, yet again, google and study.
All of this is implementation level. You're not getting my point here. You are a software programmer. That's all fine, because you think at implementation level. What you dont' do however, is think on the level above that. Game logics, AI logics, etc. What you just said is How to fail at indie game development - 101. I know it's hard to hear, but that's what it is. You're thinking on implementation level right from the bat and want to go and start programming right away. This will fail. What you're doing is blindly going into this, with no structure and no documentation. That's all a big part of software and game development, and without it, the whole process fails. |
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