Shoot a firework rocket ~ Winners!Make a forum zoo! |
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| New Zoo game speculation and ideas | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 13 2016, 03:16 PM (5,487 Views) | |
| EsserWarrior | Sep 17 2016, 09:00 PM Post #46 |
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EsserWarrior
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Maybe there could be a way where you can become staff? Say you when you hire a staff member, there is a button you can click to play as them and you can control what they do, this could be where you can feed, clean, and do other things for animals. It's kind of like a Zoo Keeper Mode in ZT2 but you could actually do things like prepare special diets for animals or maybe even train them. This feature would also be available for things like Vets, Tour Guides, and whatever else we would come up with. |
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| tigris115 | Sep 17 2016, 09:10 PM Post #47 |
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I think a Guest mode would be very useful for planning the building of the zoo. |
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| Chase | Sep 17 2016, 10:02 PM Post #48 |
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Haven't we already addressed the whole zookeeper mode thing? I know this is at least my 3rd post on it. If people want a zookeeper/manager simulation that is different from a zoo builder/design sim. The idea that some non-professionals have the time to build and combine two separate games into one is frankly ridiculous, and the persistent suggestion that we do that is growing tiresome. *Guest POV is different, as it is just a camera perspective thing. Player controlled interaction in a first person mode it what I'm talking about Edited by Chase, Sep 17 2016, 10:05 PM.
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| placidbabe | Sep 17 2016, 11:31 PM Post #49 |
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I don't personally think it is a good idea to separate a zoo game by 'design' and by 'management'. They need to both be part of the game otherwise who is the target audience? What a new game needs is a very strong, though maybe 'simple' foundation that allows the community to easily manipulate it to what they want. This would be my ideal game. Whether it is achievable to the people making a new game is another matter. In terms of design, I would like to see 'walls' and 'fences' that can easily be manipulated at the click of a button. Want the wall taller? You don't need to scroll through hundreds of different wall sets in the menu and replace the wall you have, just click a button to raise the height in increments (for a fee $). The same goes for wall thickness as well, you could make the walls thicker or thinner. Walls would also have textures that can easily be edited by a tool pallet. Want wood? Choose from a selection of wood textures. Want brick? Choose from a selection of brick colours and textures. Paths as well can have their texture changed, so there only needs to be limited building sets within a base game to create a huge amount of unique zoo's. These textures should be easily imported in the game so the community can create new styles. Auto-roofs would be handy to have, as well as the ability to design your own roof of the building. I would also like to see a new and better way to build water enclosures that better resemble tanks in real life. The ability to create artificial pools with concrete walls that could vary in depth, size and shape, ranging from a shallow oval pool for a tiger, to large, deep and odd-shaped enclosures for dolphins. (with the ability to add rocks and such into the tank as well and also the ability to build natural lagoons instead of artificial tanks). This would include the ability to make underwater tunnels and domes for guests. To make the game more accessible to younger audience, buildings (such as the entrance, bathrooms, giftshops, restaurants, even exhibits) should have a selection of pre-built designs people can place in their zoo (place, rotate and edit), but these pre-made buildings would still be made by the normal building tools available, so you can choose the easy way (pre-built) or to build yourself and nothing looks out of place. This way the community can also build and upload 'pre-built' buildings or exhibits for people to add in their game. The game should be 'online', but in the sense that you can import user-creations into the game easily, manage your downloaded content and the developers can easily add game content. It would be good if there could also be an online 'campaign' mode where all people start with x amount of $$ to start their zoo and they join an online community, and you can swap animals between zoo's that are part of the online zoo society, kind of like what happens here when people pretend to trade animals or donate money. You could have zoos with real breeding programs and real animal trading and renown. You could view other peoples zoo's by loading it and walking though as a 'guest'. Though an online society like that would likely be hard to manage so I don't see it as being that important if it's too difficult. I don't mind the idea of weather but it may get annoying. Maybe some rain would be good and some storms every now and then to mess your stuff up and you'll have emergencies to deal with like damaged animal enclosures, escaped and injured animals. Maybe an option to tick weather off and on. You could choose your climate. Is snow appropriate? No? Untick that one. Lots of rain or little? Storms common? Climate hot, mild or cold? Tick appropriate boxes. I think biomes maybe shouldn't be a thing in a new game if these options are available. You could still 'build' with different sands/dirts and grasses but your animals should be limited to what climate you pick (with the option to not pick a climate so all animals are OK ). No longer is it OK to put a polar bear in the desert heat. Your zoo will have to invest in indoor enclosures with air conditioning, which cost extra $$ to maintain. If there is a power outage you better have a backup generator. I think animals should get illnesses and can die or recover from those illnesses. Makes maintaining the animals more interesting if they are not guaranteed to live a full life if given basic food and water. Perhaps this could be a tick on and off option as well. A vet? Zoo tycoon doesn't have a Vet as a staff member. The ability to build a hospital and rehabilitation center in the zoo. Or if your zoo doesn't have enough money for this, the ability to send animals to a vet clinic/zoo hospital for treatment. The animals definitely need more work. I think the game should perhaps have settings like 'Easy', 'Normal', 'Hard' difficulty settings so that you can have a broad audience from young to old. Easy difficulty would be similar to what zoo tycoon is now. The animals are pretty easy to look after. Give them food, water and a companion and they are happy. Hard difficulty would take into consideration real animal difficulties in zoological facilities. Want to breed Meerkats? No problem but remember only the alpha pair in a group are allowed to do that. If you want new genetics, you will need to build another enclosure to house the new family line. Oops, your endangered rhino (and only male) got a contagious disease and died, now your other rhinos are at risk of infection and you no longer have a breeding group. Not so easy getting another male rhino to replace him. What to do? Keep the female herd until they die out, Get rid of the entire herd, organize a large costly trade with another zoo for a new male or invest in costly and unreliable artificial insemination to keep your breeding program alive? Uh-oh, your prized killer whale gave birth, but the calf died shortly after. Endure the negative publicity. Weather could not be switched off in this difficulty. A month of bad weather and your zoo is hurting financially due to lack of visitors! Time to make some cheap deals to bring in customers like "Buy one ticket get one free" that runs for a month or something in game, to try and boost attendance. Edited by placidbabe, Sep 17 2016, 11:33 PM.
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| Chase | Sep 18 2016, 12:39 AM Post #50 |
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But seperating or prioritizing is always done. If we go at a project with too broad a task either the quality suffers or the project fails. Separating the two categories is the most logical solution. There are plenty of games where players can care for animals. If you want to feed animals or interact with them look no further than ZT Xbox. The Zoo Vet game was another one where your goal was to care for the animals. All these zookeeper-type micromanagments are what I don't think are necessary in the new game. Time and time again the complaints I've seen in the community have been 2 things. First they want more realistic animal behaviors. And secondly they want better building options. S&T's are a major part of the community, so I'm pretty sure that by focusing on masterplanning the target audience isn't really changing. Macromanagement is just as big a part of design as building exhibits. Operations costs, safety and well-being, maintaining healthy populations. If any one of those aspects fail the zoo won't last. So they are just as important. With this game we're looking to fill a niche. A sim type game with near limitless, yet manageable design options that allow you to create the zoo of your dreams. Unlike its predecessors a game that features complex and realistic animal and guest behaviors, where they interact with the environment you've designed, and react to any changes you may bring forth. Focusing on those aspects is what I'm in support of. Adding "first person" interactive options where you play as the animal, keeper, trainer, vet, tour guide, PR office, maintenance man, or dietitian while fun would likely extend or delay game development, and just don't seem necessary. Edited by Chase, Sep 18 2016, 12:43 AM.
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| placidbabe | Sep 18 2016, 01:30 AM Post #51 |
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I don't see 'first person' interactive vets/zookeepers as management abilities. I agree with you that I don't see how that will really benefit the game. Management to me is mostly text-menu based. Like how in Zoo Tycoon you click on the zoo entrance to see your management options. They are just very limited in Zoo Tycoon. I also see management options being included in 'special' items/objects that are interactive and bring up a pop-up menu when you click on them. My suggestions for being able to make your own restaurants/giftshops for example means they also have to be functioning. I would imagine doors you build on the buildings would be one of these special interactive items, where you click on the door and can set its venue to 'Gift Shop' or whatever it is so guests in the game know what building to go to. A Cash Register could also be another interactive item, where you set the register to 'Gift Shop', then you could access more menus where you can set the price and items stocked etc. Regarding vets, my vision would be a hospital that you can click on to open a pop-up menu and there you could access things such as, "Examine tiger1" or something (you could get this same option by direct clicking the sick/injured animal). This action would trigger the vet to go to the target animal, tranquilize/crate and take back to the hospital for examination, then you would get a pop-up menu of diagnosis and what option should proceed (X-ray? Give antibiotics? Euthanize? vaccinate? Perform surgery?). If you click 'perform surgery" or heal animal, the animal would remain in the hospital with a progress bar that would be time-based on how serious the condition was. Once the animal is healed, it triggers the vet to go back and return the animal and uncrate it back in it's enclosure. There could also be risk of the animal dying that would be percent based on how serious the condition was etc. I do see how it's extra work but I personally would enjoy that type of interactive management for a zoo game. But sure, design and animal interaction is more important. |
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| Imperator Furiosa | Sep 18 2016, 01:42 AM Post #52 |
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Chaos Theory
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I suppose that personally I'm more interested in a management sim, sort of inline with Sim City/Cities Skylines and Prison Architect. There is still a lot of design that goes into those, as you have to plan out your area in order to make it run effectively. I like the challenges and unpredictability management sim's can bring. But I want to be clear I'm not opposed to the hypothetical game favoring design and animal care over management and administration. I think if that's the focus a basic beuroccracy system is still necessary to add realism though. |
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| Iben | Sep 18 2016, 01:53 AM Post #53 |
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There'll be no foot-walking! Just air-flying!
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Remember though, you're not the only one who wants a new realistic zoo game here. Other people want other things, and even though I can understand your logic; I myself still stand with the idea that a combination of both is a nice thing. Besides, it's not like we're forced to keep ourselves to work on one game. I'm sure that some people have different views and ideas, and at one point we'll have multiple games being worked on. I mean, sure, it would be faster if we'd all be working on the same one, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best option or that that is going to happen
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| EsserWarrior | Sep 18 2016, 02:14 AM Post #54 |
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EsserWarrior
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I would enjoy a limitless zoo management game, I just brought up the first-person zookeeper mode option because personally I enjoy getting close to the animals and having a connection or even a made-up roleplay personality for the animals, making them special individuals, as I give them that so they animals in real life. But having complex behaviors and other things would probably fill the hole for me. |
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| Dylan | Sep 18 2016, 07:25 AM Post #55 |
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I think if we had animals without space and biomes needs, but they needed a certain level of care instead. And no zookeeper recommendations, we would have to experiment with enclosures |
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| tigris115 | Sep 18 2016, 11:35 AM Post #56 |
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I think we should analyze what specifically made the first two games so addicting and what made the Xbox one fall flat for many people. Personally, I think that the big kicker is interactivity with your creation. |
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| Imperator Furiosa | Sep 18 2016, 12:24 PM Post #57 |
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Chaos Theory
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I don't think zookeeper recommendations have to completely be thrown out but they shouldn't be strictly binding either. They'd be just suggestions for care items or exhibit features. Facilities should be revamped a lot from the Zoo Tycoon-style ones. We've already established that most people want the option to create their own buildings using a building system similar to those in the Sims games (personally I think something along the lines of Sims 4 has the most potential in a zoo game), but I think we need new types of facilities as well. A vet clinic/animal hospital seems popular, I also think a quarantine area and laboratory could go along with that. A staff center might also be good, if staff training is implemented then perhaps that's where it could take place. Guest facilities need to be expanded a lot from just the basic food, drink, and restroom ones you see in ZT2. It'd be nice to see some facilities and attractions from ZT1 brought back, like a 3D movie theater, carousel, and botanical garden since a lot of zoos seem to have those. Some new facilities like a full education center for guests and classrooms would also be good to see. I'm also thinking guests and animals should have more detailed needs than just food, drink, entertainment, and energy. These could vary from species to species as well. Guests could have food, drink, bladder, energy, environment, health, and entertainment (and actually gain entertainment from watching animals ). Animals could have food, drink, energy, comfort, social (which would be effected by how many other animals are in the exhibit with them), health, and breeding urge.
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| stargatedalek | Sep 18 2016, 12:36 PM Post #58 |
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I'm not slow! That's just my moe!
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A first person perspective is honestly a must-have for a really great design focused game. There's not nearly as much fun in designing a building that you can't then walk around in (and in this case, watch the animals). Being able to walk around, refill food/water, clean enclosures, and open gates is honestly the bulk of what you really need though. No need for riding on animals or cleaning the animals themselves or other such unrealistic and silly things, let alone pure fluff like petting them, not worth the time to implement. A lot of the mini-games in ZT2 are more annoying than anything, training marine animals in particular. Adding more mini-games for preparing food or healing animals is just going to make gameplay feel tedious. On the other hand the fossil mini-games however were alright albeit only because they actually provide a very substantial in-game reward for your time and effort. Something similar could be designing simple presentations for potential investors using in-game photographs to earn funding for your zoo. I would recommend instead that biome be changed to represent a set of criteria rather than a terrain brush (but still keep the terrain brushes for designing the visual elements of your zoo). IE you can keep a Galapagos tortoise on any terrain, so long as it has enough space, foliage, and the correct temperature range. Having a basic financial system is important, but the reason ZT2 is so beloved over ZT-XBox (besides the elephant in the room of XBox itself) is that it incorporates a lot more design elements. ZT-XBox has just as much management, and as much if not more animal interaction, but without the ability to design buildings and enclosures the game fell flat. That is why ZT2 is still going, that is the only reason it hasn't fallen into obscurity, ZT2 is an unparalleled design simulator. I've used professional landscape design programs that weren't half as intuitive and didn't give nearly as good results as ZT2. *edit* Zookeeper recommendations could be something like a cross between the original Zoo Tycoon zookeeper recommendations and the "zoopedia". General information on the animal in question, what sort of terrain features it likes (water, no water, hills), what kinds of foliage (shade, no shade, edible, won't eat plants/will eat plants), and what general behavior groups of animals it can sometimes share an exhibit with. Best to avoid prebuilt buildings as much as possible. That was my main complaint about the original Zoo Tycoon, things like aviaries were just buildings you couldn't even see the animals in them let alone design the look. I'd like to see things like that implemented through individual objects, for example one could create educational centers by creating a building and placing educational items in it such as informational displays, mounts, or fossils. And as for plants I think plants should have individual reactions for guests just like animals. Large trees will impress guests but need to be placed carefully as some animals may climb them to escape, and bright flowers will improve guests moods but need to be kept out of reach of herbivores. Some plants that have a great affect on animals may be overlooked by guests, and vice versa. Flora would become an essential part of the game instead of an afterthought. I like that idea other than a comfort need. Seems generally pointless as the animals comfort would be determined by all the other needs (or do you mean comfort refers to an individual animals situation, and not to its needs as a species?). Edited by stargatedalek, Sep 18 2016, 12:56 PM.
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| Deleted User | Sep 18 2016, 01:42 PM Post #59 |
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Agreed. As a zoo builder and game modder, I'd prefer a combination. I see no reason to separate the design of the zoo from actually interacting with the zoo. Most of my builds focus on making the design visually interesting while remaining fully functional within the confines of the game (so my zookeepers can always access the exhibits, my animals can use all of their feed areas, rest areas, play areas, on-exhibit and off-exhibit areas, indoor areas, and guests have access to multiple viewing areas per exhibit, bathrooms, food courts, gift shops... so on and so forth). TBH, while I can appreciate a nice looking S&T, I'm much less impressed by something flashy that isn't functional than someone who builds a "vanilla" exhibit that can be used the way the game meant for them to be used. A zoo design game without animal/staff/guest management and interaction would hold 0 appeal for me, personally. I can do that now with an Excel spreadsheet and some clipart... |
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| Imperator Furiosa | Sep 18 2016, 02:59 PM Post #60 |
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Chaos Theory
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@Star I was referring more to the individual animal's situation. Like you'll see animals that are well-cared for but they may still be uncomfortable for some reason. It's awkward to word it but hopefully you get what I was saying. |
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