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New Zoo game speculation and ideas
Topic Started: Sep 13 2016, 03:16 PM (5,486 Views)
EsserWarrior
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EsserWarrior

I agree with MiBound, lots of people like to interact well with their animals and take care of them in depth.

In my creations that I use in my S&T's, I make sure my animals in are in the best care as possible, but I also make it accessible so I can play on them. On my press and in my future big cat rescue, all of my animals have stories and personalities. I'd highly appreciate it if I could do this in a new game as well. ;)
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Chase
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Maintaining functionality within the AI of the game was never something I was against. Nor am I against first-person view modes. What I think is unnecessary, at least in the beginning, is first-person behavioral interaction. Stuff like cleaning exhibits, refilling food dishes, enrichment and training activities.

As I said in the very beginning, if the initial project gets to complicated or seems to in-depth and demanding it will usually fail. Most of us are workers, or full time students. Developing a complex behavioral AI, as I'm sure Iben can attest, is to my knowledge time consuming. Starting off with the very basics: fences, animals, foliage, guests, buildings, terraforming is were we should be focusing the attention.

Campaign mode development is always something that can be revisited down the line. Getting a solid freeform game setting should be first, before the ability to impose difficulties and restrictions is implemented.

Edited by Chase, Sep 18 2016, 03:36 PM.
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tigris115
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For fencing, I think that with certain animals, it should be more than one kind of fence. IRL, if you put just one stretch of iron fence between you and a lion or elephant, it will end in an injury. Maybe the use of hotwire, moats, ditches, barriers, etc.
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stargatedalek
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I'm not slow! That's just my moe!

tigris115
Sep 18 2016, 05:37 PM
For fencing, I think that with certain animals, it should be more than one kind of fence. IRL, if you put just one stretch of iron fence between you and a lion or elephant, it will end in an injury. Maybe the use of hotwire, moats, ditches, barriers, etc.
Well if the animals are going to have hitboxes and be able to attack guests (and if so please let them actually be capable of killing guests, need not be graphic, it happened in ZT1) than that would (on paper) seem fairly easy to implement simply by letting hitboxes for animals attacks pass through some kinds of fences but not others. This would mean that zoos could save some money by using a wire mesh fence to contain the animal and another, simply fence to "contain" the guests so they can't reach the range of the animals. As opposed to a more expensive solid plexi wall that would allow guests to get far closer.
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EsserWarrior
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EsserWarrior

I'm sure it'll take time to develop anything, but there is no major rush, I think the designers should take their time on this and do things slowly or at a good enough pace to make sure things look good. I know with the skill of some of the designers around here anything is possible ;)

I do hope complex animal behavior would be a cool touch, also maybe instead of the Zookeeper Highlights or whatever they're called, there could be something like in Wildlife Park 2 where it's a list that tells you things.
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selkie
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agreed with the majority of the stuff above! that google document is absolutely wonderful, as well. i'm a fan of trying to find a mature balance between the zoo-keeping and zoo-managing genres.

i did have a thought come to me today, though. as we know the baby animals in ZT2 grow from young to adult, with a different model and different behaviors (staying close to mothers, nursing). i'd also wonder how it would be to have a new, elderly stage? animals with fur become more gray, maybe more issues with illnesses (arthritis, organ failure, etc.), as well as more sedentary or easily-disorientated behavior. of course, that doesn't include animals that may have unique behaviors and looks during their elderly and end-of-life stages, if there are any. i can't think any off the top of my head though.
Edited by selkie, Sep 19 2016, 03:28 AM.
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placidbabe
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Chase
Sep 18 2016, 03:35 PM

As I said in the very beginning, if the initial project gets to complicated or seems to in-depth and demanding it will usually fail. Most of us are workers, or full time students. Developing a complex behavioral AI, as I'm sure Iben can attest, is to my knowledge time consuming. Starting off with the very basics: fences, animals, foliage, guests, buildings, terraforming is were we should be focusing the attention.


Even basic, "fences, animals, foliage, guests, buildings, terraforming" is going to be hugely complicated. The project will likely fail if the creators are not 'all in'. Full time workers and students? Honestly goood luck. I really do wish everyone well creating a new game.

Quote:
 
Besides, it's not like we're forced to keep ourselves to work on one game. I'm sure that some people have different views and ideas, and at one point we'll have multiple games being worked on. I mean, sure, it would be faster if we'd all be working on the same one, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best option or that that is going to happen :P

Sounds like conflict waiting to happen ;) Perhaps contracts should be written to avoid future issues

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LC Creations
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I would like for everyone to know I have Photoshop
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Iben
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There'll be no foot-walking! Just air-flying!

placidbabe
Sep 19 2016, 03:44 AM


Quote:
 
Besides, it's not like we're forced to keep ourselves to work on one game. I'm sure that some people have different views and ideas, and at one point we'll have multiple games being worked on. I mean, sure, it would be faster if we'd all be working on the same one, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best option or that that is going to happen :P

Sounds like conflict waiting to happen ;) Perhaps contracts should be written to avoid future issues

The concept of a zoo simulator, whether it is management/design/both, is a public concept. It cannot be monopolized by one single user or group. A contract won't change a thing about that, nor is it a solution to avoid conflicts. :P

Seriously, if people are going to pick fights about that, it's silly. Multiple groups of people will go and try to make a zoo game, that's for sure. It's not the end of the world, and you can't expect everyone to work together. Not everyone gets along, and certain people have certain preferences and other focus points.

I for instance want the inclusion of a biome brush, because I want to make each landscape myself; whilst others might not want that. Different games, different focus points, same core aspect. ;)
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tigris115
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We should start with something as simple as possible. Maybe just something where you place blocks with simple AI
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placidbabe
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Iben
Sep 19 2016, 10:34 AM
placidbabe
Sep 19 2016, 03:44 AM


Quote:
 
Besides, it's not like we're forced to keep ourselves to work on one game. I'm sure that some people have different views and ideas, and at one point we'll have multiple games being worked on. I mean, sure, it would be faster if we'd all be working on the same one, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best option or that that is going to happen :P

Sounds like conflict waiting to happen ;) Perhaps contracts should be written to avoid future issues

The concept of a zoo simulator, whether it is management/design/both, is a public concept. It cannot be monopolized by one single user or group. A contract won't change a thing about that, nor is it a solution to avoid conflicts. :P

Seriously, if people are going to pick fights about that, it's silly. Multiple groups of people will go and try to make a zoo game, that's for sure. It's not the end of the world, and you can't expect everyone to work together. Not everyone gets along, and certain people have certain preferences and other focus points.

I for instance want the inclusion of a biome brush, because I want to make each landscape myself; whilst others might not want that. Different games, different focus points, same core aspect. ;)
I don't really know what the plans are here, but I wasn't referring to any copyright infringement on an idea of a game. I was referring to if you guys plan to work together, make code, models etc, anything that advance game creation and then a group of those people are like, "OK I will make my own game now" using work that was created by the whole group or different people.

But obviously if you are all attempting to make the game from scratch, each, then that won't be a problem and there can be no conflict in that instance.
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tigris115
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I really think that as many of us should work together as possible on account of the fact that we can all pool in our resources from all four corners of this community.
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Raptorhunterlll
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As being a long time ZT2 player i agree with most of the stuff above.
We need better life cycles such as Newborn/Hatchling>Infant>Juvenile>Sub-Adult>Adult>Elderly also animals need to have more realistic lifespan EX:Elephant 60-75 year old, Rat 3-4 years old i think not just having animals die in just over a year is ridiculous and unrealistic. We don't need realistic birth and mating but we do need more realistic pregnancy like taking your pregnant animal to the vet and giving them pregnancy checks, this can work for egg laying and live birthing animals. Baby animals should be more realistic such as staying close to their mother, needing to be in an incubator, staying in nest and stuff like learning from their parents and stuff.

We need veterinary purposes for our zoo such as giving animals medicine, pregnancy checks, surgery, birth control, and possibly euthanizing them though this might be too hard for the younger audience (and me) to do since we get attached to the animals easily.

More staff options like Vets, Gardeners, Botanist, Biologist, Tour Guides, etc because a simple zookeeper, trainer, maintenance crew, paleontologist, and mascot(though still important) aren't gonna do the job for the entire zoo, oh and maybe security guards if you are doing more dinosaur based zoo. We need things like power outage, black outs, and controlling your maintenance like building wind turbines and have shipping and delivery crew would be useful, i got this idea from the future dinosaur tycoon game prehistoric kingdom and i think it is a good idea. Shipping your animals and buying from other zoos will be cool and trying to integrate them into the pack/herd by like chain-link fences and stuff.

More realistic aquariums and lagoons for creatures because in most aquariums a dolphin will be in a lagoon while a octopus will be in a aquarium its just realistic. Making people experiment with fences and other thing like that will make a hole new change for the game EX: how can i make my leopards not clime out, how can i make the octopus just slip its way out of the tank, how can my snake not just slither via vent these are the things real zoos need to face all the time. Choosing biomes for your animals (not zoo, it should be optional) seem to be mixed, i think you should be able to choose biomes for your animals but should be more complex like for a Savannah exhibit you will need to plant it and wait for it to spread or if you have polar bear or penguin in a more tropical climate theme zoo should be more like in real life having them indoors with coolers but a polar bear might be harder so maybe giving them fur cuts or cool the area they are in.

You should care more on baby and elderly animals like keeping babies in an incubator a nursery tank or something, i been to a zoo were the baby crocs were in a little 50 or so gallon tank this is something i would like to see. More elderly animals would need more medicine, develop arthritis, for carnivores maybe teeth and claw dullness which makes it harder to eat so you simply need to give it softer and easier to eat food. For the infant side again hand feeding your baby animal like milk or insects, hay, and stuff like that would be really useful and having different diets as well like crocodillians eating insects but when they get older you gotta try to integrate them too fish and meat this can go for other animals as well.

We may not need animal mating but we need more realistic behavior such as attracting mates and trying to integrate them with each other like in real life, you want to breed your tigers you need to keep them separated by like a chainlink fence or something slowly trying to get them use to each other and not just scratch their faces off. Pack/Herd need to be more advance like having to male lions with each other is possible but if you introduced them with the pride around the same time and this also meaning having either more exhibits for that species or adopting them out.

We definitely need a zoo ranking program like zoo fame, being able to have rewards, knowing how happy your animals and quest are and other things like that it would be so cool plus having something like your animals are living longer and being healthier is always a plus and having cross breeding, genetic mutations (EX: Malistic jaguar or a albino zebra and thing like that), and more rare species in your zoo should attract your guest, having like a critically endangered albino 2 headed snake at your zoo will put your zoo on the map realistically.

We need to have better textures, animations, AI and other things to be realistic and having things like bigger maps will be amazing like MUCH bigger image the cc XL zoo but the thing is its a small zoo and having huge zoos like the Bronx, San Dieago, Wild, and NC zoos and aquarium would be awesome!!! Things like more animals diversity and other realistic factors is a must.

This hold near and dear to my heart and since i had been playing ZT2 for over 5 years make me wish this game could come true since games like mesozoica and prehistoric kingdom is being a spiritual successor to Jurassic Park Operation Genisis why not a game can do the same for Zoo Tycoon 2
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Dylan
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I find it funny reading these. All I want is peafowl and other birds tails hanging down if they sit on a perche
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Piano
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They stayed up late; they trashed the house

It's 7AM here and I've been up all night so I'll make this short - because even though I have a lot to say on the subject I'm currently feeling very winded.

Personally my taste would fall under super-design oriented builder sim. In fact, a lot of zt2 grows tiresome for me due to the micromanagement of guests and animals; so much so that I don't ever open my zoos to guests (not to mention the fact that what looks aesthetically appealing is not always accessible to guest pathing) and I have half of my animals converted into private use statues. I want my zoo to look realistic and pretty - not worry about the fact that a flock of 30 flamingos poops so much (that the same amount of ugly zookeepers can't keep up), fly into fences, get stuck in rocks, become ill, and generally cause havoc.
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