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2 more dinosaur discoveries
Topic Started: Jun 7 2017, 10:59 AM (1,086 Views)
BossMan, Jake
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Son of God

https://www.google.com/amp/relay.nationalgeographic.com/proxy/distribution/public/amp/2017/06/tyrannosaurus-rex-skin-fossils-feathers-scales-science

http://rsbl.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/13/6/20170092
It appears T-Rex was scaly and not feathered, though I'm not convinced by this claim, the sample is to small

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/05/170523082554.htm
Ceratopsian tooth found in Mississippi suggesting that larger ceratopsians lived in appalachia
Edited by BossMan, Jake, Jun 7 2017, 11:02 AM.
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babehunter1324
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That Ceratopsid tooth... I've been reading about it for 2 years, nice to see that it's been finally published.
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Paleop
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Paleopterix

Tyrannosaurus was still likely feathered ;)
the scale placement on the rex's neck was ventral, and all the tail scales were found on the lower half.

there's quite a bit of room for feathers left
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Galliwasp
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There is a way out. Just not for you.

Yeah, I'm annoyed that they ("they" being the researchers, of all people - no sensationalist journalism this time) used skin impressions you could hold in your hand to conclude that the animal wasn't feathered -at all-, because thermoregulation (thereby forgoing everything that's already been discussed regarding air sacs and greater surface areas and metabolic efficiency).
Edited by Galliwasp, Jun 8 2017, 04:11 AM.
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Incinerox
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Āeksiot Zaldrīzoti

Paleop
Jun 7 2017, 09:43 PM
Tyrannosaurus was still likely feathered ;)
the scale placement on the rex's neck was ventral, and all the tail scales were found on the lower half.

there's quite a bit of room for feathers left
They never specified where on the neck the scale samples came from, and you forgot to mention the scale patch that came from the ilium. The one diagram with any info on the neck scales seems to imply they came from the back of the neck though. Not a confirmation, but based on how they marked down locations of scale samples from other species in the supplementary content, that seems to be the implication.

There is still quite a bit of room for feathers over the back, flanks, chest and arms as is often depicted.

I'm kinda annoyed that they don't really make it all that clear though. Their diagrams are vague at best and they don't actually make any note on specifics in their descriptions.
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stargatedalek
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I'm not slow! That's just my moe!

I'm with Cau on this one, I'm not sold on those even being scales at all. They're highly irregular in size and they're so small these could easily be wrinkles in thick hide or even decomposition (bird skin becomes "crusty" in a very similar fashion during decomposition).
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Furka
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I don't know much about the subject, but would it be possible that this wrinkly/scaly tissue could grow as a sort of scar tissue over wounds, replacing feathers ?

Also it's cool to hear about the Applachian ceratopsid.
Edited by Furka, Jun 9 2017, 02:58 AM.
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stargatedalek
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I'm not slow! That's just my moe!

Furka
Jun 9 2017, 02:32 AM
I don't know much about the subject, but would it be possible that this wrinkly/scaly tissue could grow as a sort of scar tissue over wounds, replacing feathers ?
I suppose it's possible. These are very unusual patterns. Exclusive to Tyrannosaurs and - you guessed it, Yutyrannus. Yutyrannus had a similar patch from the tail, which we know was fully concealed in very long feathers. Exactly what that means for these impressions is still unclear, we don't know if Yutyrannus long feathers concealed bald spots (like ostriches), or if these are scales they may grow in this strange way in order to allow feathers to grow among them, and of course skin decomposition, but I rather like your idea these could also represent survived injuries.
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Incinerox
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Āeksiot Zaldrīzoti

Honestly, everyone's freaking out over T. rex's skin when those preserved on Albertosaurus in the supplementary data link they provided are actually FAR more exciting from a technical perspective.

Quote:
 
Description. Two patches of skin are preserved. The first patch occurs in association with several gastral ribs and the impression of an unidentified long bone(Fig. S1A–D), suggesting the skin comes from the abdominal region of the animal. The patch of skin measures roughly 10 x 8 cm although the impressions extend further into the matrix and under the gastralia. The skin consists of pebbly, subcircular basement scales (mean diameter = 1.4 mm; range = 1.4–1.6 mm) preserved in bold relief, and which grade into larger (mean diameter = 2.3 mm; range = 2.0–2.5 mm) vaguely hexagonal scales. Six adjacent scales regularly surround each scale. Also preserved are two conical feature scales (sensu[5]), 7 mm in diameter, 2.5 mm high and situated 45 mm apart (Fig. S1B, D). Weak corrugations radiate from the apex of the feature scale but do not extend to the apex itself. Although feature scales are present on a variety of ceratopsids, hadrosaurids, stegosaurids, and titanosaurid sauropods, they have been previously identified in theropods only in the albelisaurid Carnotaurus sastrei[6]. Not enough is preserved to determine whether or not the feature scales were randomly distributed or arranged into rows as in Carnotaurus[6]. A transverse fold in the skin clearly illustrates the original pliability of the integument. Interestingly, the integument along the length of the fold contrasts with the surrounding closely packed pebbly scales. Instead, the integument here is pockmarked with 1mm wide divots spaced 3–5 mm apart. A second patch of skin, from an unknown part of the body measures 7 x
12 cm, and comprises a uniform basement of diamond-shaped scales in negative relief. The scales measure 4 x 3 mm in dimension and are neatly arranged with each scale surrounded by six of its neighbours (Fig. S1E).


This is WAY more complex than what's available for T. rex.
Edited by Incinerox, Jun 9 2017, 11:52 AM.
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Ignacio
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Ex Corrupt Staff

But Albertosaurus is not famous enough to make it to headlines :P
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Jules
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Mihi est imperare orbi universo

Eh, you can still market it as "Close T-Rex relative" or something.
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BossAggron
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Formerly Dilophoraptor

Jules
Jun 9 2017, 12:25 PM
Eh, you can still market it as "Close T-Rex relative" or something.
We all know that's reserved for non-Coelurosaurian dinosaurs.
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Paleodude
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ex-Krampus

Honestly the worst part about the Tyrannosaurus paper is how completely wrong mainstream media represented it as a nail in the coffin against feathered dinosaurs and the stupid and frankly insulting "stupid paleontologists should've just listened to JP lol" comments that spawned from those articles. If anything the scales mean very little and frankly overshadowed beyond cool stuff like the ceratopsian tooth and the early bird in amber.
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Paleop
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Paleopterix

Incinerox
Jun 8 2017, 08:26 AM
Paleop
Jun 7 2017, 09:43 PM
Tyrannosaurus was still likely feathered ;)
the scale placement on the rex's neck was ventral, and all the tail scales were found on the lower half.

there's quite a bit of room for feathers left
They never specified where on the neck the scale samples came from, and you forgot to mention the scale patch that came from the ilium. The one diagram with any info on the neck scales seems to imply they came from the back of the neck though. Not a confirmation, but based on how they marked down locations of scale samples from other species in the supplementary content, that seems to be the implication.

There is still quite a bit of room for feathers over the back, flanks, chest and arms as is often depicted.

I'm kinda annoyed that they don't really make it all that clear though. Their diagrams are vague at best and they don't actually make any note on specifics in their descriptions.
good catch :like:
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