Shoot a firework rocket ~ Winners!Make a forum zoo! |
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| Why is the community dying?; And what can we do to save it | |
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| Topic Started: Jul 5 2017, 11:16 AM (2,505 Views) | |
| Luizo | Jul 5 2017, 03:47 PM Post #16 |
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#MOREBADGES
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Yes, like Zoohispania ... Actually long ago I think, they were the most active forums, as much as the English ones But in the truth even in their golden times they had certain dying moments, but there were "waves" in which the people returned. |
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| Yukon | Jul 5 2017, 04:01 PM Post #17 |
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insta: yukons_designs
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I agree, that competition in designing would be something really cool, I really miss the drama, too And I wasn't even involved at that time, just a shy visitor. About designing, Zoo Tycoon just lacks some very important features. When you dig a bit deeper into computer arts as I have, you'll notice very quickly, how much this engine lacks and it is really frustrating, nowing how your skillset gets limited by the possibilities of this game. Just take a look at these video about unreal engine's level designing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzoY062kY1s&t=1827s I am very satisfied, that I would be able to get something similar done, if ZT2 would just allow me to do so, in fact, as some of you might know, I am working on different plants for blender to use for vfx or architectural visualization (https://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?409777-graswald/page6), but seeing ZT2 fail at standard render features such as pbr maps, translucency, displacement, etc really frustrates me. If you are interested in that btw, check out these links: https://www.marmoset.co/posts/physically-based-rendering-and-you-can-too/ https://www.marmoset.co/posts/basic-theory-of-physically-based-rendering/ I mean, we don't even have control over roughness and reflectivity, (besides some specific shaders I guess), basically it is just the diffuse color and that's it. It sucks compared to what is possible right now! So this is the biggest reason, that I am currently not too motivated to design. And the problem is: people who start designing here with the idea to later on do game design professionally will have to start from scratch again after ZT2. I am not trying to demotivate people and in terms of modelling, you can go with the standard ZT workflow but everything from texturing to shading is just completely different. And I don't really have a solution for this problem, sad to say. We can't really fix this, unless we make our own game, which as I already mentioned probably is way too time consuming... |
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| Reptileink | Jul 5 2017, 04:15 PM Post #18 |
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(Feral Designs/DeepSix)
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I just feel that most of what has been able to be done has been done with this engine. It was never intended to use shaders and high graphics etc. I am the least qualified to talk about the limitations of the game, but I feel like overall, we've scraped the meat and the pith out of the orange, and now we have nothing left but the skin. I think people need to re-adjust and actually work on things to improve the game with the limitations it has. More effort into people re-skins would be 100 times more valuable than how many skins an artic fox has. We've come leaps and bounds in the past couple of years with Hendrix's help, and innovations from guys like Thom making working elevators and doors, but the core of the game itself seems barely touched. If we "lived within our means", we'd have a really nice game that functions well versus a bunch of pretty rhinestones stuck to a cheap pair of jeans. |
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Jul 5 2017, 05:04 PM Post #19 |
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I actually believe that it's quite surprising the community is still this much alive, even though the game is more than 10 years old. While I realize the community will die, as some great designers have left already (lately Hendrix and the JFD team) and there are far less active zoos than a while ago, I also see more talented new designers and zoo builders coming to the stage, as well as some well-known designers and zoo builders returning every once in a while. Some great examples are the Paranoia pack being very much alive again, and great zoos like Cucamonga, Charles Albert Gardens and Lowland Hollow which have returned from a long absence a while ago. Even in designing some revolutionary things are still happening. So while some disappear forever, many legends also stick around every now and then and we're not really at the end of progress of anything, although the many great designers we have seen have pretty much made everything we could wish for. I realize as well that real life is taking more time for everyone, and this will probably count even more for many other members, especially those who are a little older. I personally think there being one central forum is quite useful to keep all the active people at one place. So this way more people will show their creations at one place and more people will join the discussion, which stimulates more activity. More forums might have worked in the past but I don't think it can be functional anymore. It will be quite hard to prevent the community from dying, as that is quite inevitable. What might help is organizing more contests, though that requires some very active members to manage them. Maybe it could work if we let younger members do this so they will have more of a role in the community. As a final measure maybe the forums should expand their theme to more than just ZT2, so that more people will feel attracted to the community. This could, however, also work the other way around in a way that less people will play ZT2 because of those games. Anyway, I think the ending of this wonderful community is inevitable, but we can always try to make the best of the last phase and keep it alive for as long as we can. EDIT: Maybe a new Marathon might even work, although this will definitely be a horror to organize. And it might be hard to find enough participants but it could be worth a try. Edited by TheYeti, Jul 5 2017, 05:25 PM.
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| Reptileink | Jul 5 2017, 05:49 PM Post #20 |
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(Feral Designs/DeepSix)
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Communities are built from forums, not the other way around. Many people see lack of posting on forums and assume that the forum is dead, even though they might get 1-2,000 visits in a day. With the innovation of social media, many of these forums are falling by the wayside as needs for instant information grows. People don't want to wait 2-3 days to get a design question answered, or get discouraged when their brand new zoo gets 3 likes, and 2 comments. I don't think launching more contests will "save the community". I think the community is at where it is at because it's the natural course of gaming. Edited by Reptileink, Jul 5 2017, 05:52 PM.
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| Imperator Furiosa | Jul 5 2017, 05:50 PM Post #21 |
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Chaos Theory
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We currently have two staff members tasked with creating contests, and they collaborate with the other staff about what to do. The issue with bringing new people on for contests is that they may not work well with the other staff or their ideas may not be possible to do with such a small community. That's been the biggest issue with contests so far, more ambitious building ones may only receive a handful of entries.
The only way a marathon may work now is if it were just pairs or teams of 3. We just have too few active members left to do something on a bigger scale. |
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| Reptileink | Jul 5 2017, 05:59 PM Post #22 |
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(Feral Designs/DeepSix)
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To add to things, I think one of the biggest issues is most members are just around for downloads, and not to participate in a community. That's been that way for a LOOOOONG time. So no matter what is tried to attract members to participate will be wasted time as the same people will enter the contests that like to enter contests, and the same people who come here for downloads will still just come here for downloads. |
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| Denomon3144 | Jul 5 2017, 06:50 PM Post #23 |
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Pick a god and pray!
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That is a huge problem. (Some designers don't even add lang files anymore!) However, the community is NOT dying. If anything, it will continue to grow, due to popular YouTubers like BestInSlot and TheGamingBeaver. |
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| Zoo Tycooner FR | Jul 5 2017, 07:07 PM Post #24 |
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#Lithopédion
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Well, we cannot deny the community is dying though... I mean just look a few years back and see how active it was and compare it to the current activity Also, look back at Mononoke-hime's posts and see why ZT2 Youtube community growing =/= the whole community is doing great ![]() Also: ''That is a huge problem. (Some designers don't even add lang files anymore!)'' That is totally uncalled and unnecessary, in my opinion. Designers release stuff if they want to release stuff, and only they can decide whether they want to add lang files or not. Edited by Zoo Tycooner FR, Jul 5 2017, 07:21 PM.
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| Ztlabraptor211 | Jul 5 2017, 07:55 PM Post #25 |
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Laziness of designers? Come on man. We're lucky designers put the time and effort into making these increasingly high quality downloads and releasing them for us. They're part of the main reason this community is still alive; downloads. I originally came to this site a long time ago and like many users, I was only their for the downloads. But the community had drawn me in with so many topics bustling with activity. I'd say the best initiative to try to bring as much life to the forum as possible would simply be a renovation, new activities and new topics in an effort to capture attention and retain active users. I do understand that it's definitely not that simple however. If there were a group of people though who had the interest and the dedication and time to truly commit to making this community thrive again like when it first opened up, I think there would be some good results. I think this primate contest was a great idea and so far it's gotten a good amount of attention. By the way I truly don't mean to insult the works of any staff who run this site. All of the staff members are definitely dedicated hard workers, but I definitely think adding some more people who will commit to help run this site and plan events and the like, and continuing to add contests, festivals and other events will go a long way. |
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| magpiealamode | Jul 5 2017, 08:01 PM Post #26 |
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No good hero is a one-trick phony.
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I'm certainly not opposed to more staff, but I don't see how it helps. We are not understaffed, nor does that staff have too much to do. I think it would be best to add staff as activity climbs, rather than preemptively hiring new staff and hoping the community responds by becoming more active. The limiting factor is participation. While I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of participation for our contests, I don't see how we can just drum up more. That's not up to us, it's up to the general public of TRT, and unfortunately that's what we're not seeing right now.
Edited by magpiealamode, Jul 5 2017, 08:02 PM.
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| SLGray | Jul 5 2017, 08:49 PM Post #27 |
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Exactly there has been times from the start of the online community where activity declines, but there is a increase. |
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| RGDS | Jul 6 2017, 01:17 AM Post #28 |
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One think that would keep the community alive longer. When you click on a topic, just comment. That's it. And no one there can say he does that. And for the designing threads, grabbing what's released like thieves doesn't give the designers the motivation and the rewards they deserve. Again, comment, and not only on the AD thread, even if it's maybe the most preferred thread. Same goes for S&Ts and encouraging new builders. And don't complain about the lack of lang files and start thanking for the amazing work they did except for that lang file. Edited by RGDS, Jul 6 2017, 01:19 AM.
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| Zoker. | Jul 6 2017, 03:17 AM Post #29 |
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Zoker
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Excuse my bad English lol I am not one of the older members like Zeros, but I already have several years in the community. I remember when I was excited every time the team of "Snowleo zoo equipment" for an update, Snowleo was always my favorite designer and my inspiration, it was quite sad when he retired from the design, it is sad to see that several of the Best designers withdraw or some are active from time to time. I remember when I had to review several forums for seen great projects of the designers, to see Sophie, had to go to Gaia, to see Eryel and Zeros, had to go to hispania zoo, etc. I completely support Zeros, I remember that in the community there were more than 100 active people and now it's 30, the legends are gone. |
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| Scott | Jul 6 2017, 03:47 AM Post #30 |
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I don't think it's laziness of designers, it's more of the new generation(s) lack the inspiration to design. But more or less they completely don't want to do it, they leave it to those who are skilled, so they work hard on it only for others to just download it and then that's it. You do see it a lot that people just don't want to design and they say it out right. Me, myself I know how to, perhaps not from scratch but I know blender basics and such. It isn't hard but it can be time consuming. Real life does get in the way a lot to be honest. That's the reason why I probably will not learn the advanced stuff. I've been around since the days of sites like Zoomania and I remember getting most of my downloads from ABC and Zootycoon.nl. Sites come and go. So do designers and it's up to you to decide whether you want to take part and design both content creators and zoo builders. Which everyone should be encouraged to. You also have to see the amount of people that do join the forum daily? or even in a month and it's still a fair bit. But how many of them actually comment or post something productive in the forum. Not only that when some groups did make other forums there was a spat that actually made no sense. This person stole this blah blah blah... I think after that people were just put off. |
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And I wasn't even involved at that time, just a shy visitor. 














