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Animal organisation.
Topic Started: Jul 19 2017, 07:02 PM (1,846 Views)
Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
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People here, and in the general public split animals into 5 groups. Mammals, birds, amphibians, fish, reptiles, invertebrates. This is stupid and misleading for many reasons. Here is my new method to present to you.

Arthropods, mollusks, vertebrates, cnidarians, annelids, others. This is a much more realistic view of the animal kingdom. People should stop treating vertebrates like they're special with respect to other animals, because they are not.
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Zoo Tycooner FR
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#Lithopédion

And people like you should stop treating invertebrates as something special, when in reality they do not differ much from vertebrates...
Edited by Zoo Tycooner FR, Jul 19 2017, 07:16 PM.
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Jules
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Mihi est imperare orbi universo

Did it mayhaps cross your mind that the reason everyone uses that oh-so-hated organization way is that it's more practical and more suitable to general interest?
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magpiealamode
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No good hero is a one-trick phony.

As a zoology student, I can understand where all of you are coming from. The vast majority of Animalia is inverts (arthropods, actually) even though the general public seems to think it's mostly fluffy bunnies with the occasional lizard thrown in. But we could divide it however we want. If you happen to have a special interest in sponges, for example, you might ask why not think of animals as sponges (Parazoa) and everything else (Eumetazoa). Taxonomy is a human creation, and is based on human choices which are subject to change. Without it, every animal is just an individual with some close relatives and some distant relatives. Thus there is no right way to divide the kingdom. This applies to all of life, really.
As for vertebrates, I think the typical organization which you seem to dislike is the result of general interest, as well as zoo collections. The most of the creatures on display at a given zoo are going to be vertebrates, even if they are minimally represented among the actual headcount of animals. Perhaps this is because we are vertebrates? Not to mention the simple factor of size, which brings vertebrates to our attention more readily, and the fact that a lot of the most formative species in an ecosystem are vertebrates. Think humans, elephants, beavers... we verts have a huge impact on the environment. And the fact that many vertebrates are cute, while inverts tend to be markedly uncute (this being a matter of opinion).
Personally, I find invertebrates to be interesting, but I was always a student of vertebrate bio. If we really want to go phylum by phylum though, in order of size which is what I believe you're doing, then your approach probably makes more sense. But then again, public interest and personal relevance. And ZTFR makes a point, anatomically vertebrates and invertebrates aren't too crazy different. Trust me, I've dissected a lot of both.
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Ignacio
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Ex Corrupt Staff

Is this topic for real?
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Burns
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King of Lemurs

I worked at first stand-alone non-profit invertebrate zoo in the US for three years, and I still don't care.

It's not like people are disincluding them, they are just grouped together. Without the grouping technically the groups would be

Placozoa
Sponges
Sea Anenomes, Jellyfishes
Comb Jellies
Flat Worms
Mesozoa
Ribbon Worms
Sand Worms
Gastrotrichs
Rotifers
Nematodes
Horsehair Worms
Spiny-crown Worms
Brush Heads
Spiny-headed Worms
Cycliophorans
Marine Mats
Bryozoans
Phoronans
Lamp Shells
Slugs, Snails, Squid
Phallus Worms
Peanut Worms
Spoon Worms
Earthworms, Ragworms
TardigradaWater Bears
Tongueworms
Cthulhu
Peripatus
Insects, Crabs, Spiders etc
Beard Worms
Starfish and allies
Arrow-worms
Hemichordates
Fish
Amphibians
Reptiles
Birds
Mammals

And see how ridiculous that would be?
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Danny
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Wait are you suggesting the animals in-game should be split into some new level of classification? If not, we already have a pretty decent system of classification for Metazoa, so the only reason people treat it otherwise is because invertebrates are so tiny and the typical person doesn't need to know the difference between a roundworm and a flatworm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phylum#Animal_phyla
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Posted Image Flish
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Guys... Pretty sure this is a troll
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Fireplume
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Snok Snok Snerson

Flish
Jul 19 2017, 09:11 PM
Guys... Pretty sure this is a troll
Yeah... I'm gonna have to concur with this. Dunno why, but it is.
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Goldblum
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Fireplume
Jul 19 2017, 09:43 PM
Flish
Jul 19 2017, 09:11 PM
Guys... Pretty sure this is a troll
Yeah... I'm gonna have to concur with this. Dunno why, but it is.
Because he is. He's trying to pick a fight or something.
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magpiealamode
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No good hero is a one-trick phony.

Let's not let this get out of hand with accusations. We don't know what his intentions are, let's just hear him out if he has anything more to say and discuss things civilly.
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Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
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Zoo Tycooner FR
Jul 19 2017, 07:12 PM
And people like you should stop treating invertebrates as something special, when in reality they do not differ much from vertebrates...
First of all, no I am not a troll. This is legit something I am wondering about.


And your logic is flawed. Verts and inverts aren't two halves of the animal kingdom. Vertebrates are literally within invertebrates. Vertebrates are just one of many groups of animals. Many invertebrates are actually more related to vertebrates than to other invertebrates, like tunicates and hemichordates.

Its like dividing the animal kingdom into cnidarians and non-cnidarians. One has stinging cells, and the other doesn't.
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Burns
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King of Lemurs

Can you elaborate on how vertebrates, animals with spines,are within the category of invertebrates or animals with no spine?
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Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
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Posted Image
Look at this. It isn't completely accurate, but it's pretty close. You see craniata? That's vertebrates. What is it surrounded by? Other animals. Or, "invertebrates" as many may say.
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magpiealamode
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No good hero is a one-trick phony.

This could quickly become a semantics argument. The term "vertebrate" has different connotations and can be used very differently from the classification Vertebrata. One refers to animals that have backbones, the other is used to designate the taxon containing species with backbones. So, vertebrates are not a form of invertebrate, but Vertebrata is nested within mostly invertebrate taxa.
Edited by magpiealamode, Jul 20 2017, 12:12 AM.
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