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Animal organisation.
Topic Started: Jul 19 2017, 07:02 PM (1,849 Views)
SLGray
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I do not know where you live, but around here people call invertebrates animals.
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stargatedalek
Jul 20 2017, 08:41 AM
magpiealamode
Jul 20 2017, 01:11 AM
I think Burns is hinting at phylogenetic nesting. Think of it like matryoshka dolls; each successive taxon adds something onto the last. So,
Fish have vertebrae
Amphibians add weight-bearing limbs
Reptiles add amniotic eggs

Then, mammals and birds are separate branches. Mammals add hair and mammary glands, birds add feathers.
Velociraptor is such a great bird :P

Safer to think or archosaurs, mammals, and reptiles as three separate branches, since the particularly early reptiles were pretty far removed from modern reptiles too, even compared to mammals and dinosaurs.

I can understand wanting more recognition for invertebrates, but my problem there is that they don't often vary as much within "their groups" as vertebrates do. I can see any beetle and recognize it as a beetle, the most diverse group of animals (no, of life) on the planet, and yet a mouse and a squirrel can appear so different and completely foreign to each other if someone isn't already aware they're related.

Look at a scarab and longhorn beetle, perhaps the most visually distinctive on "each end of the beetle spectrum". Now look at a crow and a Brachiosaurus. The two archosaurs are "technically" closer taxonomically than the beetles but you'd never guess it. This is why Sauropod and Corvidae are going to be used more often than Oxypeltidae and Scarabaeidae.
For one thing, mice and squirrels are not that different even on first glance. Plus, I have counter examples.

Stink bugs and water scorpions are way more distinct than any two rodents.

Hell, I'd argue that jumping spiders and nephila orb weavers are more distinct than any two carnivorans.

Same goes for other groups. Pterobranchs are as distinct from other gastropods as whales from other mammals.

When it comes to first glance distinctiveness, arthropods probably surpass vertebrates, mollusks are at least on par, and annelids and echinoderms are not to far behind.

And as for the lack of invertebrates in the game. I don't think they would be too hard to animate. Plus, there is so much potential. Plus, there is bound to be people interested in them.

And tho may sound like an extreme stretch, but would it be possible to introduce a new microscope mechanic? Where we could keep really tiny or microscopic animals in Petri dishes and view them under a microscope?
Edited by Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt, Jul 20 2017, 06:58 PM.
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Stephen
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Stuck on Earth

Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
Jul 20 2017, 06:56 PM
For one thing, mice and squirrels are not that different even on first glance. Plus, I have counter examples.

Stink bugs and water scorpions are way more distinct than any two rodents.

Hell, I'd argue that jumping spiders and nephila orb weavers are more distinct than any two carnivorans.

Same goes for other groups. Pterobranchs are as distinct from other gastropods as whales from other mammals.

When it comes to first glance distinctiveness, arthropods probably surpass vertebrates, mollusks are at least on par, and annelids and echinoderms are not to far behind.
That's all rather subjective, but so was SGD's original argument to be honest. I don't think that's really important as to why people group animals the way they do. Conscious interaction (most people have more conscious interaction with mammals than with invertebrates) as well as relatedness-to-humans seem to be the biggest factors why people think some animal groups are more "important" than others.
Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
Jul 20 2017, 06:56 PM
And as for the lack of invertebrates in the game. I don't think they would be too hard to animate. Plus, there is so much potential. Plus, there is bound to be people interested in them.
Not so sure, you'd think designers would have made more of them if people were really interested. Also: you don't see them that often in a zoo exhibit, and zoos often have the same/similar species of inverts.
Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
Jul 20 2017, 06:56 PM
And tho may sound like an extreme stretch, but would it be possible to introduce a new microscope mechanic? Where we could keep really tiny or microscopic animals in Petri dishes and view them under a microscope?
Go for it.
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Stephen
Jul 20 2017, 08:11 PM
Also: you don't see them that often in a zoo exhibit, and zoos often have the same/similar species of inverts.
That may be true for terrestrial ones, but any zoo with a sizable aquarium is going to have a nice selection of marine ones.
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Burns
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King of Lemurs

I think what Steven is pointing out is the lack of diversity in captive collections of Invertebrates. Only a few coastal aquariums are bound to have single holdings of some of the rarer marine inverts. All of the other ones are most likely bred in captivity or come from tropical fish stores, still the diversity is low.
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SLGray
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The animal kingdom is so diversity that no organization will cover everything correctly. Each specialized field has their own organization.

Biology fields and Zoology fields have different ways to organize animals. The one most people know is just a frame work to work from.
Edited by SLGray, Jul 20 2017, 08:42 PM.
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Well, in the past few days, I learned that this type of organization is for convenience, as unfortunate it may be.
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Fireplume
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Snok Snok Snerson

Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
Jul 20 2017, 08:46 PM
Well, in the past few days, I learned that this type of organization is for convenience, as unfortunate it may be.


Uh duh isn't that the whole point of organization in the first place?

Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
Jul 20 2017, 06:56 PM

And tho may sound like an extreme stretch, but would it be possible to introduce a new microscope mechanic? Where we could keep really tiny or microscopic animals in Petri dishes and view them under a microscope?


What does this even matter if you don't even play the game?

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Fireplume
Jul 20 2017, 08:57 PM
Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt
Jul 20 2017, 06:56 PM

And tho may sound like an extreme stretch, but would it be possible to introduce a new microscope mechanic? Where we could keep really tiny or microscopic animals in Petri dishes and view them under a microscope?


What does this even matter if you don't even play the game?

A suggestion. Just because I don't play doesn't mean I can't give ideas. Plus, in the future, someone might do it. Very unlikely though. But possible.
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SLGray
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I believe that would not be possible.
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Dylan
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Well I'm late but fish shouldn't be classed as one group. They are two : bony and cartilaginous
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Dylan
Jul 21 2017, 03:40 AM
Well I'm late but fish shouldn't be classed as one group. They are two : bony and cartilaginous
Well, 4 actually. Cyclostome (hagfish and lampreys), cartilagenous, Ray finned, and lobe fin (includes tetrapods).

But this understandable. While fish and herptiles aren't real groups, they do share basic, similarities.

Fish are generally aquatic vertebrates with fins that generally breathe through gills. Herptiles are generally cold blooded vertebrates with sprawling gates that generally have naked or scaly skin. The same is not for invertebrates.

Even at a purely superficial and completely layman level, they all share no basic, practical similarities. Crickets and sponges are as completely different from each other as you can get while still being animals.

Though, they are all still put together because animals outside vertebrates aren't very popular and they act like an 'other' category.
Edited by Insect Illuminati Get Shrekt, Jul 21 2017, 01:04 PM.
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SLGray
Jul 21 2017, 01:32 AM
I believe that would not be possible.
Why not?
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Zoo Tycooner FR
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#Lithopédion

Because the game has its limitations which you would probably know if you actually played it...
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Zoo Tycooner FR
Jul 27 2017, 05:28 PM
Because the game has its limitations which you would probably know if you actually played it...
I know it has limitations, but I don't what specific limitations would prevent such a thing.
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