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What annoys you most?; Rant here if you need to!
Topic Started: Mar 3 2013, 08:45 AM (309,817 Views)
Stephen
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Stuck on Earth

Okeanos Saviour
Aug 19 2013, 04:28 PM
Birds are able to inhabit almost any environment on earth, save perhaps for deep ocean (obviously) and still are fully feathered.

I am not a dinosaur expert (please forgive me my possible mistakes), but this statement is slightly wrong IMO. Most birds nowadays are not similar at all with a Tyrannosaurus. Yes, birds inhabit pretty much any ecosystem on Earth, but not the kind of birds Tyrannosaurus was most similar to (which seem to be large ratites like Ostrich, Emu, Rhea, at least to me), don't live in the floodplains nor semi-temperate forest (= a mix between boreal and temperate? Idk).

What annoys me is when my dog lies right underneath the couch I sit on (we have this kind of hollow couch and it's her favourite resting spot) and suddenly she grunts EXTREMELY loud. I was scared as hell. I swear I jumped 2 ft. high.
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Okeanos
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I know that, but I was saying that feathers are not 'bad' for their survival, nor does it aid them, but they aren't 'bad' in a relatively warm climate. I'm a bit tired of seeing the 'but it'll overheat' argument (not saying Dr. Hax did, but I've seen it way too often)

This is why I tend to hang back in discussions like these
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Stephen
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Stuck on Earth

Thanks for the explanation, I see what you meant now.
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CyborgIguana
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Dr. Hax
Aug 19 2013, 03:35 PM
People who obsess over the idea of Tyrannosaurs with feathers, solely because a few particular ancestors from China had some plumage. This is why (With the exception of UT2, who portrays feathered tyrannosaurs rather well) I hate the idea of a T. rex with feathers. Sure, it might have had some feathers on its arms, maybe even a tail fan, but it certainly did not look like this:
Posted Image
More like this:
Posted Image
There is no evidence that Tyrannosaurus had feathers, aside from it's ancestors, which, even then, is pretty poor evidence. Most species change over the course of millions of years, so why would Tyrannosaurs be exempt from this rule? For example, look at Daeodon, then look at a domesticated pig. Look nothing alike, right? That's called evolution. Tyrannosaurus lived in floodplains and semi-temperate forests, it very humid climate that had little to no need for feathers. It wasn't blazing hot, but it wasn't freezing cold either, which was he perfect balance for a scaly animal like a crocodile or Tyrannosaur would be right at home at. So before you attack me for not believing in feathered tyrannosaurs, let me just say that some species that lived in extreme climates, like Alaska, probably had feathers. I'm just not buying that T. rex had feathers.
I personally do think T.rex had some feathers, but I agree that it probably didn't have a full coat. However, I don't think a T.rex would have looked like the DR depiction, either. It would have been somewhere in between the two images you showed, in my opinion.
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Admiral General Aladeen
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I hate American Red squirrels. They chew my window sill, storm door, everything. And have you heard the noises they make? I also have a huge Red Maple in my yard and this time of year it drops those little helicopter things, which of course, they all like to eat. There's about 13 in my yard right now.
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Dr. Hax
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CyborgIguana
Aug 19 2013, 04:54 PM
Dr. Hax
Aug 19 2013, 03:35 PM
People who obsess over the idea of Tyrannosaurs with feathers, solely because a few particular ancestors from China had some plumage. This is why (With the exception of UT2, who portrays feathered tyrannosaurs rather well) I hate the idea of a T. rex with feathers. Sure, it might have had some feathers on its arms, maybe even a tail fan, but it certainly did not look like this:
Posted Image
More like this:
Posted Image
There is no evidence that Tyrannosaurus had feathers, aside from it's ancestors, which, even then, is pretty poor evidence. Most species change over the course of millions of years, so why would Tyrannosaurs be exempt from this rule? For example, look at Daeodon, then look at a domesticated pig. Look nothing alike, right? That's called evolution. Tyrannosaurus lived in floodplains and semi-temperate forests, it very humid climate that had little to no need for feathers. It wasn't blazing hot, but it wasn't freezing cold either, which was he perfect balance for a scaly animal like a crocodile or Tyrannosaur would be right at home at. So before you attack me for not believing in feathered tyrannosaurs, let me just say that some species that lived in extreme climates, like Alaska, probably had feathers. I'm just not buying that T. rex had feathers.
I personally do think T.rex had some feathers, but I agree that it probably didn't have a full coat. However, I don't think a T.rex would have looked like the DR depiction, either. It would have been somewhere in between the two images you showed, in my opinion.
Here's a better pic for reference:
Posted Image
Some feathers on the back and arms and a tail fan, but not much else. This is what i thinked T. rex looked like in life. And not like this:
Posted Image
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Posted Image Azrael
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Personally, I would think the head would be bald and the legs would be bald. We can see in Emus, Cassowaries etc. because they run rather than fly, their legs could overheat. It would make sense that the same for T.Rex, also bald head because they're carnivores, and they wouldn't want all of the meat etc. to get stuck in them.
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CyborgIguana
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Azrael
Aug 19 2013, 08:09 PM
Personally, I would think the head would be bald and the legs would be bald. We can see in Emus, Cassowaries etc. because they run rather than fly, their legs could overheat. It would make sense that the same for T.Rex, also bald head because they're carnivores, and they wouldn't want all of the meat etc. to get stuck in them.
That's pretty much how I imagined them too. Except tyrannosaurids were built more for ambush than pursuit, so I'm not sure they'd have to worry much about overheating. :)
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Posted Image Azrael
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Some of them still have to run in order to ambush. It's not like they can hide, they were ginormous. Odds are or from what I've seen in documentaries (yes, just because I'm not a paleofan doesn't mean I don't watch things on them) they likely would have the faster juveniles chase prey and lead them to where adults would be lying in wait in the dense forests where they couldn't be seen.

This would still require a bit of running on the juveniles or one tyrannosaurs part.
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OwlParrot
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When I bite my lip
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Iben
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There'll be no foot-walking! Just air-flying!

Azrael
Aug 19 2013, 08:43 PM
Some of them still have to run in order to ambush. It's not like they can hide, they were ginormous. Odds are or from what I've seen in documentaries (yes, just because I'm not a paleofan doesn't mean I don't watch things on them) they likely would have the faster juveniles chase prey and lead them to where adults would be lying in wait in the dense forests where they couldn't be seen.
Still, the top speed tyrannosaurus makes is about 11 mph. Real sprinters with naked legs, like ostrich and emu, run at 70 mph and emu's run at 50 mph. Looking at how that 20 mph difference already shows a vast difference between the amount of feathers ( Ostrich has most of it's top legs naked, while with emu's they're already covered in feathers ) it highly unlikely that an animal that rarely sprints would have naked legs. ;) There are other examples of birds that are ground bound and are much slower, but still retain most of the feathers on their legs. Ostriches, Emu's and Cassowaries are the only big terrestrial birds we have today, but they're not really that good to compare with tyrannosaurus, although it's at least better than elephants :P

Dr. Hax
 
There is no evidence that Tyrannosaurus had feathers, aside from it's ancestors, which, even then, is pretty poor evidence.


Actually, you don't understand the concept of evidence properly from what I see here. You have two types of evidence, direct and indirect evidence. Both types are valid forms of evidence, one not being poorer than the other. So to correct your statement, there's no direct evidence that Tyrannosaurus had feathers, as we don't have a fossil with feathers on Tyrannosaurus. This is also the case for Brontornis, Aepyornis, Thylacoleo, Diprotodon, etc. We have no direct evidence of fur or feathers. We do have indirect evidence that it had that type of coating because of their direct ancestors and descendants, and that's considered valid proof. For Tyrannosaurus we have Dilong and Yutyrannus. If we look at evolution, like you said, we see that there's no logical or valid reason for scaly animals to be favoured over feathers in the described habitat, so evolutionary/logically/basing on the evidence, we have a lot to back up that Tyrannosaurus was feathered.
There's not so much to "buy or believe" when it comes to accepting that Tyrannosaurus was feathered, you either accept the evidence there is like you do with most other types of species, or you ignore evidence because it fits your opinion on how the animal should look. And that is exactly what annoys me. People who ignore evidence to fit their opinion.
Edited by Iben, Aug 20 2013, 02:46 AM.
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Dr. Hax
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Great, now i feel like a terrible person for thinking T. rex wasn't as feathered as it's ancestors or descendants.
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Tyranachu
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Nerdasaurus

...

Okayyy.

Back on topic.

You know what annoys me?

HTML.

It's confusing and the classes are diabolical.
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Jules
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Mihi est imperare orbi universo

You're lucky to have informatic courses at all -.-
Here, they consider you're an expert once you know how to use word and excel.
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Stephen
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Stuck on Earth

^In addition to that, they think I am a computer genius, able of solving all computer issues because I have spent like half of my life on here xD
I feel like I‘ve thrown away such a large part of my life...
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