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| Golden Eagle caught killing a deer. | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 26 2013, 08:36 PM (1,654 Views) | |
| Stephen | Sep 27 2013, 10:14 AM Post #16 |
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Stuck on Earth
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Was no baby deer ZC It's a roe deer, which is fairly small.
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| Ignacio | Sep 27 2013, 10:36 AM Post #17 |
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Ex Corrupt Staff
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The article i read said the deer was 7 month old |
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| Stephen | Sep 27 2013, 10:39 AM Post #18 |
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Stuck on Earth
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Oh well, didn't read that
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Sep 27 2013, 11:04 AM Post #19 |
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I stand in the shadows waiting for you to return me to the light.
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MrGorsh you do know that even if the raptors might die that if they actually can land a single deep wounds into the herbivore and retreat, the herbivore has the chance of blood lose. Not to mention if the group just followed it. Similar to a komodo dragon the raptors would stalk their prey for days till the animal finally falls to of blood loss and getting tired out from the stalking predators. I think that would work since the claws of Denionychus alone would leave deep wounds, so once the entire pack ends up on giving a quick assault on the larger animal's blind spot clawing at spots for a second or two and then they pounce off running back into the forest or whatever the spot the group is attacking from.. |
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| Mathius Tyra | Sep 27 2013, 11:42 AM Post #20 |
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Rat snake is love... Rat snake is life
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Well, I doubt that Deinonychus can do that enough in a single lighting attack. Remember that Large animal like Tenontosaurus is certainly has tough skin, or might even have "quilly" cover their leather. Eagle in the pics took down the deer by grabbing on its back and tightened its talons until the the wound ripped. That "grab and hold" tactic will make the deer become weaker and weaker from its pain and exhaustion, and the worst of all, the deer isn't powerful enough to get rid of the birdie. However, Deinonychus, in the other hand can't grab their feet. Its sickle claws looks too fragile to make such damage in just one quick strike, if the raptor want its prey to suffer from the same method, then it must catch on the Tenontosaurus longer, so that their claws can sink deeper and damage the prey more. However, judging from the strength of Tenontosaurus. I don't think it will let the raptor grab on its back like that and will easily shake the raptor away. |
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| Furka | Sep 27 2013, 12:02 PM Post #21 |
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not to mention that we still have no evidence that raptor hunted in packs (rather, we know they ate each other). plus, Komodo dragons can afford to hunt like that because they are cold blooded animals and can wait longer without a meal, a warm blooded animal like deinonychus would require a more regular food supply. Edited by Furka, Sep 27 2013, 12:28 PM.
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| Cat | Sep 27 2013, 12:23 PM Post #22 |
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Did you even read what MrGorsh said? |
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| Similis | Sep 27 2013, 12:26 PM Post #23 |
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I'd appreciate if you read my whole post before responding. We're talking about a 1,5 (conservative) ton animal. More than a cape buffalo vs human-weighted hollow-boned bird-o-saur. Good luck to them tackling a healthy individual alone, since pack hunting of Deinonychus is not even supported. It's contradictory to evidence (cannibalism). |
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| CyborgIguana | Sep 27 2013, 12:41 PM Post #24 |
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I never said raptors were powerhouses. Or that they were pack-hunters. Just that if there was a wounded Tenontosaurus that attracted a large mob of Deinonychus from miles around, they could potentially mount an unorganized group assault on it and kill it. But yes, those would probably be rare cases such as this, but they still could have happened. Edited by CyborgIguana, Sep 27 2013, 12:41 PM.
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Sep 27 2013, 12:42 PM Post #25 |
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I stand in the shadows waiting for you to return me to the light.
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Yes I did read the entire post, why does it seem everybody thinks I did not.... But one I never said it would cause drastic damage in a single attack, I said that in multiple attacks that were somewhat organized like crows which would most likely be the same as a raptor's of any species. Possibly considering that animals even with a minor state of intelligence or even a good amount will use tools if they can. So therefore since raptor s are of avian descent or such they will be intelligent enough to at least have some organization. Plus if you got bit from say a single cat yes it does a small amount of damage, however when there are seven to eight of them it will not be a clean experience then the cats repeat their attacks then you might end up unable to get fixed back up. Plus who said that the animals would be right on the herbivores hide? I said they would follow however for a distance away, since there would be a need to feed ones who are hungry would leave, then another member of pack stays and follows. Once the animal is dead the pack feasts upon the spoils. The animals themselves if they just grab upon the larger animal's back with their front claws then bite and stab, the larger herbivore would then try to shake the small predator. The small Denionychus would be able to move their toes like a normal animal can so then it can just push off running away into the bushes. Plus if the raptors learn where large veins are in the herbivore they can make a deadly attack causing the herbivore to lose more blood faster.... Plus there has been Anglicanism, so what? If every animal in the animal kingdom will eat each other bloody hell. So what if they will eat each other, people eat each other, wolves eat each other, gulls, cows, crocodiles, lions, tigers, bears, fish and other animal will eat each other to survive or whatever! So will crows, komodo dragons, and other semi-grouping animals like them! |
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| Similis | Sep 27 2013, 12:54 PM Post #26 |
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Again, I ask - where is your evidence contradicting the act of cannibalism and supporting organized pack hunting? Also, what is the purpose of following a large herbivore that can certainly crush you like a big, while you have plenty of smaller game, suitable for a dromaeosaurid avaliable? Again, your points would be valid if we had direct signs of such predation occuring and no other herbivores around. But it's not the case, there were surely plenty of animals like Zephyrosaurus or even mammals who would be more than suitable for those to hunt. I can't stop being under impression that you're using the super-duper-clever examples of Deinonychus that became the paleoart (or movie) tropes, even though they most probably shouldn't. It's like force-fitting an animal to certain idea instead of adjusting the idea to what we know of the animal. And we're offtopic, horribly offtopic. Could this be moved to some paleo-discussion one? |
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Sep 27 2013, 01:19 PM Post #27 |
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I stand in the shadows waiting for you to return me to the light.
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I never contradicted cannibalism bloody hell! I never said they lived in large permanent packs at all nor did I say that they would be completely organized! I said they would act more like crows who live in temporary flocks where they can come and go when they please. The pack would most likely follow the first attacker's movements or such so then they could actually kill the fragging herbivore! Plus if a predator sees slower less able prey, wouldn't it go for the slow prey. A old bull or young juvenile would allow the raptors to see this "Well those middle age adults are to strong, that young juvenile would be a easy and yet large target." So which would give them more meal per animal that hunts? A simple and small herbivore or a medium sized herbivore who was young and unknowing. Realistically I am seeing the entire species of raptors as giant crows who cannot fly. Because they are birds, they see, act, and look like birds so why would their intelligence be that of a unintelligent iguana. Komodo dragons have a great intelligence level that is that of a young child, they can learn colors, commands, and other things in which a child can learn. Except writing and human language because well their a komodo dragon.... So why would we consider dinosaurs on the same chain as we thought of komodo dragons who are far more intelligent than most people thought! So what if a raptor will eat each other? Crows eat each other! Komodo Dragons eat each other! But when they have a focus other than each other they will go to prey and not kill and rip eachother they will only go for prey. Plus considering dinosaurs are avian ancestors why would they kill each other every five minutes when they are in the same area and they are the same species? They would not, if there was a hatchling maybe, a week old young member would not be on the normal menu because animals when they need to will hunt each other if they don't normally do so. If you saw the BBC WWD new blood what did it say about the Celophysis eating each other, they did it when there was a problem such as drought meaning less food, or when there was a lesser amount of food from migrations of prey.... Therefore the bloody freaking raptors would not eat each other when they saw each other! |
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| Similis | Sep 27 2013, 01:29 PM Post #28 |
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So, I would have to accept that they were heavily social as you say, based on the fact that the fossil congregation we found represents a site where cannibalism act occured? Nope. There's no evidence pointing towards this, and WWD could have portrayed their Coelophysis like that, but that also doesn't mean this was the case, just like with Utahraptors being bald and living in Europe. If you don't refrain from using your own desires as a driving force of your interpretation of the fossil evidence, I really see no point debating this case with you, as even raw numbers I presented were clearly ignored in favor of making the raptors "kewler". |
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| CyborgIguana | Sep 27 2013, 01:35 PM Post #29 |
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That's the problem with many paleo-fans. They base their hypotheses on what they think is cooler, but nature doesn't run on rule of cool. End of discussion. |
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| Furka | Sep 27 2013, 01:39 PM Post #30 |
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Everyone, end this now and return on topic. If you want to continue this discussion, open a new topic in the Nature section. |
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It's a roe deer, which is fairly small.













