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What annoys you about paleontology?; Rant on about moronic theories, complaints, or just animals that annoy you.
Topic Started: Sep 28 2013, 05:04 PM (256,227 Views)
Luca9108
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Master of Dinosaurs

Tyranachu
Jul 2 2015, 12:26 PM
What's the point of wasting energy for feather production if the animal's just gonna shed them upon reaching adulthood?

And feathers don't necessarily hinder living in tropical or arid environments. There are a lot of large birds that live in such environments that still retain their integument.

As for grooming, dust bathing exists. xD
I agree.
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Tyranachu
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Nerdasaurus

Ground sloths were huge and lived in arid environments, yet we have fur samples from them.

I don't see how theropods can't do the same. :P
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Rex T
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Please understand I'm not saying they didn't have feathers. Far from it however the illustrations I see and the information I have heard from scientist suggests that full grown dinosaurs that lived in a tropical environment had full coats of feathers designed to retain body heat. To me it makes little sense for them to keep a full coat their whole lives. They probably had patches long their backs and arms but a full coat of heat retaining feathers would be a problem for and active predator in a tropical environment.
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Luca9108
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Master of Dinosaurs

Also, don't feathers work a little bit different than fur?
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Jules
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Mihi est imperare orbi universo

Feathers work in a completely different way; they also isolate and protect from heat, unlike fur.
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Paleop
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Paleopterix

isn't T rex a mesotherm?

Quote:
 
Mesotherm (Greek, meso = intermediate; thermē = "heat") refers to an animal organism that adjusts its body to a metabolically favourable temperature using a context dependent balance of internal metabolically produced heat and external environmentally derived heat.


this combined with feathers could potentially mean t rex saves allot of energy, by not needing to produce as much body heat

on another note, what about black or brown feathers?

on another note, would hair like proto feathers work like full filamentous feathers or not?
Edited by Paleop, Jul 2 2015, 12:39 PM.
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Rex T
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Quote:
 
Ground sloths were huge and lived in arid environments, yet we have fur samples from them.

Yes that is true. However, their fur isn't designed to keep as much body heat in. For example a Siberian Tiger and Bengal Tiger both have fur with the same design and are of the same species. However, a Siberian's coat is designed to retain more heat than a Bengal's because it's environment requires it. For the Bengal the heavy coat would be a problem in it's environment. Now replace the tigers with dinosaurs such as Albertosaurus and Tyrannosaurus, yes I know they aren't exactly the same but are close relatives, where its believed that the Alberto's coat was for retaining heat in its boreal or arctic climate. A T.rex who lives along the shores of the inland sea and that is a tropical or sub tropical environment would still have feathers or fuzz but it's coat would be much lighter and wouldn't cover its body as an adult. My problem is when people, scientist and artists included, throw both animals into the boat of having thick heat retaining coats of feathers when it doesn't make sense for them to both have them for different environments.
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Tyranachu
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Nerdasaurus

I never said you claimed that feathers were completely absent on theropods, mate. :)

I'm just illustrating why I think a it's unlikely for a theropod to bother losing feathers or just grow patches of it.
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BossAggron
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Formerly Dilophoraptor

Rex T
Jul 2 2015, 12:40 PM
throw both animals into the boat of having thick heat retaining coats of feathers when it doesn't make sense for them to both have them for different environments.
except feathers can also keep the animal cool aswell. So Size does not matter as much when it comes to feathers
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Posted Image Guat
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Rex T
Jul 2 2015, 12:40 PM
Quote:
 
Ground sloths were huge and lived in arid environments, yet we have fur samples from them.

Yes that is true. However, their fur isn't designed to keep as much body heat in. For example a Siberian Tiger and Bengal Tiger both have fur with the same design and are of the same species. However, a Siberian's coat is designed to retain more heat than a Bengal's because it's environment requires it. For the Bengal the heavy coat would be a problem in it's environment. Now replace the tigers with dinosaurs such as Albertosaurus and Tyrannosaurus, yes I know they aren't exactly the same but are close relatives, where its believed that the Alberto's coat was for retaining heat in its boreal or arctic climate. A T.rex who lives along the shores of the inland sea and that is a tropical or sub tropical environment would still have feathers or fuzz but it's coat would be much lighter and wouldn't cover its body as an adult. My problem is when people, scientist and artists included, throw both animals into the boat of having thick heat retaining coats of feathers when it doesn't make sense for them to both have them for different environments.
Emus have thicker coats of feathers than ostriches yet they, emus, live in hotter climates. Feathers can also help animals loose heat so a thick coat of feathers won't actually burn Rex.
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Tyranachu
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Nerdasaurus

I don't really see how your argument regarding tigers would help your stand.

If a T. rex were to live in a hotter area, then the rex will have shorter feathers, like the bengals.

Do bengal tigers grow patches of fur? Nope. They still have a full coat, just not as thick, but still a full coat.
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Rex T
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Quote:
 
except feathers can also keep the animal cool aswell. So Size does not matter as much when it comes to feathers
I'm not T.rex wouldn't have feathers to keep it cool. Maybe my fault for not making my point 100% understandable but what I'm trying to say is that when people try to carry traits of one dinosaur over to another when it makes no sense. T.rex's feather probably helped a full grown adult who can maintain its core body temperature to lose heat if it gets too hot since it lives in a more tropical environment. Alberto's feather are believed to help it keep warm since it lives closer to the arctic circle. Their feathers or fuzz are designed to benefit them in their environment. I get upset when people try to make their feathers function the same when they wouldn't have. If you dropped and Alberto with a thick coat in a tropical environment its coat, which is designed to retain heat, would be a problem in a hot environment and the same is true for T.rex in the cold. I don't agree with people who say both dinosaurs either had a heat retaining coat or a heat dispelling coat of feathers. 2 different animals with different environments would have had different kinds of feathers to help them not the same kind of coat being heat retaining or losing. I hope that clears up what I'm trying to say. :3
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Paleop
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Paleopterix

the problem here is that were comparing dinosaur biology to mammal biology,
and as we should know things like their integument work differently

Edited by Paleop, Jul 2 2015, 01:00 PM.
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Furka
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Alberto did live in hot environments (as evidenced by the presence of crocodilians and some freshwater turtles), and so did Gorgosaurus, despite what some movies tell us.
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Luca9108
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Master of Dinosaurs

Paleop
Jul 2 2015, 12:52 PM
the problem here is that were comparing dinosaur biology to mammal biology,
and as we should know things like their integument work differently
Yes, it would be better to compare it to birds, which are the only living dinosaurs.
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