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What annoys you about paleontology?; Rant on about moronic theories, complaints, or just animals that annoy you.
Topic Started: Sep 28 2013, 05:04 PM (256,429 Views)
CyborgIguana
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While birds are technically reptiles, I think they're just included in their own group because they're separated from their closest reptilian relatives by millions of years.
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Verdant Gregor
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Perhaps we should just disband the tetrapod lineages altogether and lump them into a giant category of fishes? xD
Edited by Verdant Gregor, Dec 14 2013, 11:20 PM.
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Fluffs
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Pull my finger!

So elephants, giraffes, ostriches, horses, hedgehogs, bears, lions, tigers, flamingos, crocodiles, pelicans, penguins, Tyrannosaurus, Velociraptor, eagles, woolly mammoths, cougars, deer, wolves, hyenas, dogs, cats, zebras, lizards, kiwis, and even gazelles are just fish that live on land.
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Megaraptorking
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I stand in the shadows waiting for you to return me to the light.

Well pretty much, everything comes from the water originally...
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Sheather
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Thank you for the set, Azrael!

It's not that simple, though. Mammals are quite distinct from any reptile whereas birds aren't really very different at all.
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CyborgIguana
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Agreed...by definition a reptile is an animal with scales that lays hard-shelled eggs. Birds have some scales, and they certainly lay eggs. There's no reason they shouldn't be considered reptiles.
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Similis
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I've seen non-avian avemetatarsalia being called stem birds and honestly it sounds better than it should :P
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Furka
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Verdant Gregor
Dec 14 2013, 11:20 PM
Perhaps we should just disband the tetrapod lineages altogether and lump them into a giant category of fishes? xD
nah, i doubt you can go fishing for mouflons.
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Iben
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There'll be no foot-walking! Just air-flying!

CyborgIguana
Dec 15 2013, 01:15 AM
Agreed...by definition a reptile is an animal with scales that lays hard-shelled eggs. Birds have some scales, and they certainly lay eggs. There's no reason they shouldn't be considered reptiles.
The definition of a reptile is a cold-blooded animal with scales that lays hard-shelled eggs. The definition of a bird is a warm-blooded animal with feathers that lays hard-shelled eggs :P These definitions are both what determines what the common language calls a bird and a reptile.

I think the warm-blooded metabolism vs a cold-blooded metabolism is a clear difference. How things are arranged scientifically is not something I know enough about, but still, saying that birds and reptiles really aren't that different is kind of an understatement :P
Edited by Iben, Dec 15 2013, 05:26 AM.
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Sheather
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Thank you for the set, Azrael!

Considering we have no issue calling pterosaurs - fluffy warm-blooded flying animals with beaks - reptiles, it makes it odd when we say birds aren't.
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Iben
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There'll be no foot-walking! Just air-flying!

You seem to confuse one thing. Scientific terms and common language terms. As I said before, the definitions I gave were based upon common language. You said you were annoyed that the general public sees birds as a separate class next to reptiles.

Well that's because in languages the word "bird" and "reptile" are used to distinguish two types of visually distinct animals in modern times. When these words originated we didn't have the knowledge we have today, so I don't see a problem with people calling a bird a bird and a reptile a reptile as if they were separate groups, as today's reptiles and birds are visually separate groups so yeah, the general public will determine them a separate groups.

I don't see why anyone would be annoyed by it, as it really isn't that important at all :P It's as if I'd be annoyed because someone calls my pc a desktop pc while it's actually a working station. I don't expect people to know everything about computer sciences and if they make "small mistakes" then really, I don't bother.
Edited by Iben, Dec 15 2013, 05:50 AM.
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Similis
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptile

It's paraphyletic. Hence why I prefer cladistics. Sauropsids, Synapsids etc. Less confusion. :L
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Sheather
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Thank you for the set, Azrael!

Iben
Dec 15 2013, 05:37 AM
You seem to confuse one thing. Scientific terms and common language terms. As I said before, the definitions I gave were based upon common language. You said you were annoyed that the general public sees birds as a separate class next to reptiles.

Well that's because in languages the word "bird" and "reptile" are used to distinguish two types of visually distinct animals in modern times. When these words originated we didn't have the knowledge we have today, so I don't see a problem with people calling a bird a bird and a reptile a reptile as if they were separate groups, as today's reptiles and birds are visually separate groups so yeah, the general public will determine them a separate groups.

I don't see why anyone would be annoyed by it, as it really isn't that important at all :P It's as if I'd be annoyed because someone calls my pc a desktop pc while it's actually a working station. I don't expect people to know everything about computer sciences and if they make "small mistakes" then really, I don't bother.
It's more books, websites, etc, than the general person.
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Stan The Man
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Don't reptiles have soft-shelled eggs?
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Furka
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soft compared to birds, however the egg shell is hard enough so that the egg can be laid on land and not necessarily in the water like amphibians.
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