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Extinct Animal Questions
Topic Started: Nov 26 2013, 10:24 PM (193,393 Views)
Taurotragus
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Is it plausible for Stegosaurs(or any other armored dinosaurs) to travel in small groups led by a single bull?
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CyborgIguana
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That's the kind of thing that falls entirely under the realm of speculation AFAIK.
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Furka
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We do have Stegosaurs footprints showing a small group IIRC.

If they were made of individuals of bot hsexes or not, and which animal was the "leader", that's just speculationn.
Edited by Furka, Jun 6 2015, 02:02 PM.
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Taurotragus
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Ok thanks. Also were there any juvenile prints in the group of footprints?
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Furka
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Quote from Wiki:

Quote:
 
Tracks discovered by Matthew Mossbrucker (Morrison Natural History Museum, Colorado) suggest that Stegosaurus lived in multiple-age herds. One group of tracks is interpreted as showing four or five baby stegosaurs moving in the same direction, while another has a juvenile stegosaur track with an adult track overprinting it.


On a different subject, does anyone have a link to a list or article about the foliage in the Bahariya Formation or surrounding environments ?
I found one a while ago but lost it, and the only thing I can remember was the presence of freshwater foliage like lilies, water ferns and quillworts.
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Incinerox
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Āeksiot Zaldrīzoti

Furka
Jun 14 2015, 04:10 AM
On a different subject, does anyone have a link to a list or article about the foliage in the Bahariya Formation or surrounding environments ?
I found one a while ago but lost it, and the only thing I can remember was the presence of freshwater foliage like lilies, water ferns and quillworts.
I had something on this. I'll send you the details via PM when I refind those papers.

But know this: Most of the coastlines around the Tethys sea were dominated by an unusual, giant mangrove umbrella fern. Bahariya was one of these very places.
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Ulquiorra
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How do we even know the closest relatives of long extinct animals we don't have the DNA of? I was thinking about this the other day when thinking about Scutosaurus and that it's closest living relative may have been Testudines.
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CyborgIguana
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By studying their skeletal anatomy and comparing it to living species, I guess. It's not perfect by any means, but it's the best we can do.
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Komodo
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Varanus komodoensis

Scutosaurus had an anapsid skull and shared with many of their extinct relatives some physical features like bony scutes (osteoderms). Some scientits say that makes Pareiasaurs (the clade that includes scutosaurus) possible ancestors of modern chelonians (also anapsids), and that their osteoderms evolved and resulted in the plates of turtles. Even if chelonians aren't descendants of pareiasaurs, they may share a common ancestor.

Something similar happens when human evolution is studied, as Australopithecine fossils are compared to Hominine fossils to establish when both lineages split. Skeletons are usually the best material to establish relationships between ancient clades as scientists recognise physical features that evolved later than others, or where did they come from.

Greetings!
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MightyFan217
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OH YESSS!

Okay since I've had this brought up every now and then while talking to a friend, just how heavily armored is Ankylosaurus to the point does it even have any predators at all?
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Komodo
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Varanus komodoensis

Ankylosaurus' armor was made up of massive, keratine-covered osteoderms and scutes embedded in the skin. These knobs were of variable size and were aligned horizontally, with many smaller nodules protecting the areas between knobs. The osteoderms formed a row of spikes at each side of the body and tail. The head was covered with heavy plates and had four short horns. The only side that was fully unprotected was its belly. An adult Ankylosaurus surely wasn't afraid of predators, other than ocassionally a big or experienced T.rex. However, it would be very difficult for T.rex to turn the Ankylosaurus over and reach the belly, because of its massive plates and its flat body. Even though Ankylosaurus was a very slow herbivore, the tail grab would also scare way predators, as its thick tendons allowed great force to be transmitted to the end of the tail when it was swung, so it could be a formidable weapon.

Greetings!
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MightyFan217
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OH YESSS!

The MorgulBlade
Jun 14 2015, 01:41 PM
Ankylosaurus' armor was made up of massive, keratine-covered osteoderms and scutes embedded in the skin. These knobs were of variable size and were aligned horizontally, with many smaller nodules protecting the areas between knobs. The osteoderms formed a row of spikes at each side of the body and tail. The head was covered with heavy plates and had four short horns. The only side that was fully unprotected was its belly. An adult Ankylosaurus surely wasn't afraid of predators, other than ocassionally a big or experienced T.rex. However, it would be very difficult for T.rex to turn the Ankylosaurus over and reach the belly, because of its massive plates and its flat body. Even though Ankylosaurus was a very slow herbivore, the tail grab would also scare way predators, as its thick tendons allowed great force to be transmitted to the end of the tail when it was swung, so it could be a formidable weapon.

Greetings!
Also another thing regarding my friend's other comments about Ankylosaurus; how heavily armored around their head and neck? My friend has told me that they were armored enough to where a Tyrannosaurus couldn't get through the armor around or on it's head. He could be wrong, I don't know, but I'm asking to be sure just how armored Ankylosaurus is.
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Komodo
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Varanus komodoensis

Odin
Jun 14 2015, 01:46 PM
The MorgulBlade
Jun 14 2015, 01:41 PM
Ankylosaurus' armor was made up of massive, keratine-covered osteoderms and scutes embedded in the skin. These knobs were of variable size and were aligned horizontally, with many smaller nodules protecting the areas between knobs. The osteoderms formed a row of spikes at each side of the body and tail. The head was covered with heavy plates and had four short horns. The only side that was fully unprotected was its belly. An adult Ankylosaurus surely wasn't afraid of predators, other than ocassionally a big or experienced T.rex. However, it would be very difficult for T.rex to turn the Ankylosaurus over and reach the belly, because of its massive plates and its flat body. Even though Ankylosaurus was a very slow herbivore, the tail grab would also scare way predators, as its thick tendons allowed great force to be transmitted to the end of the tail when it was swung, so it could be a formidable weapon.

Greetings!
Also another thing regarding my friend's other comments about Ankylosaurus; how heavily armored around their head and neck? My friend has told me that they were armored enough to where a Tyrannosaurus couldn't get through the armor around or on it's head. He could be wrong, I don't know, but I'm asking to be sure just how armored Ankylosaurus is.
The osteoderms in the head were larger and thicker, covering it with a kind of bony helmet made of hard plates. The top of the skull had spikes sticking out of it and in the corners of the head were four large spikes that looked like conical horns. The Ankylosaurus had nearly all its head covered in plates.

Spoiler: click to toggle


About the neck, I'm not really sure, but it was protected by the horns at the side of the head and it also had rows of smaller bony knobs.

So that makes the throat and belly the main weak points and both were really hard to reach for a carnivore. Probably T.rex didn't bothered with the Ankylosaurs and opted for easier prays to catch, unless it was very large or experienced enough to turn the living tank over its back and tear its belly. I would consider the Ankylosaurus one of the best equipped dinosaurs of all time.



Edited by Komodo, Jun 14 2015, 02:37 PM.
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MightyFan217
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OH YESSS!

The MorgulBlade
Jun 14 2015, 02:37 PM
The osteoderms in the head were larger and thicker, covering it with a kind of bony helmet made of hard plates. The top of the skull had spikes sticking out of it and in the corners of the head were four large spikes that looked like conical horns. The Ankylosaurus had nearly all its head covered in plates.

Spoiler: click to toggle


About the neck, I'm not really sure, but it was protected by the horns at the side of the head and it also had rows of smaller bony knobs.

So that makes the throat and belly the main weak points and both were really hard to reach for a carnivore. Probably T.rex didn't bothered with the Ankylosaurs and opted for easier prays to catch, unless it was very large or experienced enough to turn the living tank over its back and tear its belly. I would consider the Ankylosaurus one of the best equipped dinosaurs of all time.



Also one last question I have, and it regards Ankylosaurids and also Stegosaurids in general rather than any particular species. How is it that their tails can be armored, and yet still be flexible enough to swing their tail clubs like a powerful blunt/slashing weapon type of defensive mechanism? I just don't understand how armored Dinosaurs in general can pull this off since they're not only armored on the tail, but their tails can flex very well to pull off attacks against predators with a tail club/thagomizer?
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Komodo
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Varanus komodoensis

Let's see. The tendons of Ankylosaurus tail were ossified and rigid in the second half of the tail. That allowed Ankylosaurus to move the first half side to side while keeping the end straight. So as the dinosaur swinged the tail a lot of force was transmitted, enough to break bones in the larger species of ankylosaurids. However it's unknown if they used the club as a weapon against predators or rivals, for display or a combination of both.

Stegosaurus didn't have ossified tendons in its tail, so it was more flexible than those of other ornithischians . Stegosaurus could have maneuvered its rear easily, by keeping its large hind limbs stationary and pushing off with its very powerfully muscled but short fore limbs, allowing it to swivel deftly to deal with attack.

Greetings!
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