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Extinct Animal Questions
Topic Started: Nov 26 2013, 10:24 PM (193,387 Views)
Paleop
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Paleopterix

Hell Creek info

if your talking about hell creek during the late maastritchian, saurian is a good place to ask
or perhaps the hell creek forums? Hell Creek Forums
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Joe99
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Humuhumunukunukuāpuaa
Jul 8 2015, 06:32 PM
Humuhumunukunukuāpuaa
Jul 5 2015, 06:15 PM
What modern day ecosystem would be comparable to Hell Creek in temperature ranges?
Can someone please answer my question.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_Creek_Formation it was subtropical so I would say maybe like the north island of new Zealand maybe
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heliosphoros
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Modern western Florida actually isn't that bad an analogue-
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babehunter1324
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South Eastern China might be quite similar, too.
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Incinerox
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Āeksiot Zaldrīzoti

babehunter1324
Jul 9 2015, 11:00 AM
South Eastern China might be quite similar, too.
Can confirm.

Where it's not concrete and glass, it's evergreen, deciduous, and has an average annual temperature of about 23. But that's bearing in mind that our winters are warmer than what Hell Creek might've had (we rarely drop below 10C in winter, while I think Hell Creek did).

That said, I read somewhere (I can't remember where I read it, I even made this a point in that post that's gone missing, damnit!) that Hell Creek was wet all year round. South East China's bone dry in winter. All our rain is from spring through summer.

So yeh, South China's good, but I think your best comparison really is the American South.
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Paleop
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Paleopterix

so, Alamotyrannus brinkmani raises a point:
what amount of skeletal differences it takes to declare a few specimens as a different genus?
to me at least it seems that Tyrannosaurus brinkmani would make more sense than Alamotyrannus
mamals are most certainly not the best analogs, but

ursus maritimus:
Posted Image


ursus arctos:
Posted Image

granted, the papers unpublished, but still
what amount of skeletal differences it takes to declare a few specimens as a different genus?
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Consultant
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For Humuhumunukunukuapuaa, it could somewhat be similar to Southern Ireland's weather, right now they are going through a cold streak, but it has somewhat warm summers, mild winters that can turn quite cold every so often, and lots of precipitation.
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SamtheMan
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@Consultant Southern Ireland does sound like a pretty close modern example. It is also worth noting that on the Saurian website there is a section called The World of Saurian (http://saurian.maxmediacorp.com/?page_id=139) where it is mentioned that Hell Creek would have had a climate similar to northern Florida with a seasonal light cycle similar to Minneapolis. The site is great place to check out info about what Hell Creek and other similar formations (Laramie Formation, etc.) would have been like.

@Paleop That is definitely an interesting point you brought up. I must admit that a few years ago (before I found out many of these new interesting things about dinosaurs) I probably would have seen the differences between, for example, Tarbosaurus and Tyrannosaurus as equivalent to the differences between a brown bear and a polar bear. However, as you mentioned and despite their differences, both of those bears are different species within the genus Ursus while Tarbosaurus and Tyrannosaurus are in their own genus'. While I highly doubt we're mentioning anything that a highly educated paleontologist wouldn't have already considered, I would very much like to hear the reasoning of how some of the closely related dinosaurs have their own genus' while many modern species within the same genus can be so different.

Essentially, I also would like to know what kind or amount of skeletal differences need to be present to be certain that 2 animals are in different genus' as opposed to being different species within the same genus.
Edited by SamtheMan, Jul 10 2015, 05:35 PM.
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Sergio
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sayori best girl

Do we know something about how raptors were born? I mean, were they born featherless and then grew feathers or had feathers since they hatched?
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Incinerox
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Āeksiot Zaldrīzoti

Betta
Jul 10 2015, 06:29 PM
Do we know something about how raptors were born? I mean, were they born featherless and then grew feathers or had feathers since they hatched?
Given that most birds are born with feathers, most notably the paleognaths and galloanserae, it's likely that dinosaurs were not born bald and helpless. Nestbound, maybe. Nothing specific on dromaeosaurids but I believe several embryos have been found which suggest that hatchlings were developed but not enough to follow parents away from the nest.

I'm not 100% on this so update me if I'm wrong.
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Helryx
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bean

I have three questions regarding the Nemegt Formation and it's inhabitants:

1)What was the temperature in the Nemegt Formation 70 million years ago?

2)And would Tarbosaurus's feather amount differ from Tyrannosaurus due to the temperature?

3)One more thing, is it possible for Velociraptors to also inhabit the Nemegt Formation?

Thanks in advance.
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Mathius Tyra
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Rat snake is love... Rat snake is life

Betta
Jul 10 2015, 06:29 PM
Do we know something about how raptors were born? I mean, were they born featherless and then grew feathers or had feathers since they hatched?
Troodontid was found to be precocial though...
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Fluffs
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Pull my finger!

Wouldn't Scansoriopterygids be altricial? I mean, they're small and live in trees (not that size matters I doubt)
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babehunter1324
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Low level taxonomy is a mess.

With that said I don't think Tarbosaurus and Tyannosaurus are good analogy to the Brown Bear and the Polar Bear, last time I checked U. maritumus diverged around 600,000 years ago from Ursus arctos. Meanwhile the linage of Tarbosaurus bataar and T. rex likely diverged about 5 Million Years or more before the latter ever appeared (let's not forget that Tarbosaurus is from the very early Maastritchian while T. rex is from the late Maastritchian). As to wheter or not separating Alamotyrannus and Tyrannosaurus is a good idea I think we should wait for the papers to be published to make any judgement.

At last I want to announce that I had found a Chordata Genus that is even more overlumped than Varanus... Enters Carcharhinus with more than 35 described species (almost a 1/10 of all described shark species) which likely diverged at least in the Paleocene (and likely all the way in the Cenomanian).
Edited by babehunter1324, Jul 16 2015, 04:26 AM.
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Bill
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originally, one_piece

Saurian's Tylosaurus have this tiny little fin on it's back, something i don't see in others reconstruction

Posted Image

and the Saurian guys usually do a hell of a good job on making accurate reconstructions so i wonder what are the evidence we got that support this.
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