Shoot a firework rocket ~ Winners!Make a forum zoo! |
| Welcome to The Round Table. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Extinct Animal Questions | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: Nov 26 2013, 10:24 PM (193,484 Views) | |
| CyborgIguana | Mar 12 2014, 08:18 PM Post #151 |
![]() ![]()
|
Is herding behaviour in some ornithischians (namely ceratopsians and hadrosaurs) still considered accurate? Because I'm aware that such doubts have been cast on pack behaviour in theropods. |
![]() |
|
| Similis | Mar 13 2014, 01:48 AM Post #152 |
![]() ![]()
|
Centrosaurines are theorized to have been at least seasonally gregarious, groups of Psittacosaurus of various age are also recognized. Hadrosaurs were nesting in colonies and were also found to be gregarious through trackways and graveyards. |
![]() |
|
| CyborgIguana | Mar 13 2014, 09:21 AM Post #153 |
![]() ![]()
|
I think of centrosaurines as the wildebeests of the Mesozoic.
|
![]() |
|
| Meerkatmatt2 | Mar 13 2014, 09:55 AM Post #154 |
![]() ![]()
|
The dry island bonebed definitely confirms this for tyrannosaurs, no way could of thirteen tyrannosaurs ended up in the one place with out a prey animal in a predator trap unless they were all together. also countless footprints confirm herding. though in my opinion, ceratopsians could of been more like buffalo and pigs in niches. |
![]() |
|
| Furka | Mar 13 2014, 10:04 AM Post #155 |
![]() ![]()
|
I highly doubt the echosystem could support a pack of such large predators. There are a lot more explanations for the gathering of the individuals, like a flood, mating rituals ... |
![]() |
|
| Furka | Mar 14 2014, 07:00 PM Post #156 |
![]() ![]()
|
Forgive me for Double-posting, I just learned about Koreanoceratops and it's tall neural spines. Is it really possible that they were an adaptation for swimming ? Doesn't seem very likely to me. |
![]() |
|
| Meerkatmatt2 | Mar 14 2014, 11:22 PM Post #157 |
![]() ![]()
|
Fruka, the group contianed many individuals, from little 2M long juveniles to the 10 meter long elders. plus most of the herbivores in the reigion were the size of elephants, a single hadrosaur could feed the entire pack. look at lions, in all other ecosystems bigcats are extremely scarce, yet lions still live in large groups. nether the less packs of tyrannosaurs may have been a rare occurrence. it is possible that the dinosaur provincial park was one of the richest areas in the world for prey at that time, hence packs only forming where there is enough to eat, everywhere else they live in smaller groups. plus the concentration . plus I am giving you the evidence for pack behavior, and you are denying it. large therapod packs certainly did exist, but they were not the norm. pack hunting tyrannosuaurs rex is ridiculous. |
![]() |
|
| Similis | Mar 15 2014, 02:54 AM Post #158 |
![]() ![]()
|
@Meerkatmatt2: you base your assumption on a find of multiple animals in the same place. It could've easily been a communal resting spot, or a natural death trap to which animals were drawn - there's no evidence for any sort of organized pack hunting or even mobbing behaviour. You also claim that pack hunting certainly existed, without providing any evidence towards it. It is possible, yes. But it's not certain. For herbivores it's easier to assume herding when multiple individuals are found, but congregations of predator remains can occur due to multiple reasons and attributing it to 'pack behaviour' right off the bat might not be the best explanation all the time. @Furka - tall neural spines are present in other ceratopsians too, it is possible some of them required a taller, flattened tail for swimming, but so far there's no certainity about it. Edited by Similis, Mar 15 2014, 02:56 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| Bigwhale | Mar 15 2014, 03:09 AM Post #159 |
![]() ![]()
|
Is it possible for Troodons to live on large packs? Or they just mob like most raptors? |
![]() |
|
| Meerkatmatt2 | Mar 15 2014, 04:15 AM Post #160 |
![]() ![]()
|
Sorry furka, it's highly likely , not certain for therapod pack behavior, also the fact that there were no herbivores found nearby rules out predator trap, though the communal resting is intriguing, let's say this is evidence that tyrannosaurs may have congregated with members of the same species at different ages, and not fight each other over it. |
![]() |
|
| Meerkatmatt2 | Mar 15 2014, 04:28 AM Post #161 |
![]() ![]()
|
Mob I think, I just realized just how good was the depiction of troodon in march of the dinosaurs was ( despite inaccurate feathering) |
![]() |
|
| Similis | Mar 15 2014, 04:51 AM Post #162 |
![]() ![]()
|
Wat. Predators are capable of consuming carcasses of eachother too, it would take one dead Albertosaurus in the trap to lure more :P. Some remains weren't found complete, whether or not they simply avoided fossilization or were devoured, destroyed and/or carried away by incoming carnivores, isn't addressed in what I've read about the discovery. So, again, pack behaviour in Theropoda isn't well documented and modern archosaurs don't point out to it either. While it's plausible to assume pack behaviour in extinct mammals based on some remains and their modern relatives, there's no hard evidence for it in dinosaurs. Modern avians, being a lot more clever than their extinct relatives, don't display pack behaviour in many cases, neither do Crocodilians. All excavated theropod remains point out to, at most, tolerance of groups of own species, sometimes during travel (dromaeosauridae tracks), or mobbing the prey during feeding frenzy. Organized packs would require advanced social structures (of which we don't know) and, to an extent, more developed brains, which extinct non-avian theropods clearly lacked. It's good to speculate various behaviours, but it's not good to take them for granted due to conclusions drawn out of clues that aren't related to such behaviours. |
![]() |
|
| Meerkatmatt2 | Mar 15 2014, 05:11 AM Post #163 |
![]() ![]()
|
Okay, sorry for this, let's just say this could be interpreted as evidence, communal living in carnivorous birds has been documented in kookaburras and southern ground hornbills, and I did consider one of the albertosaurs setting a predator trap. even then, this could suggest that they could get along with others of their kind without ripping each other apart, for their would be alot of broken bones if that were the case.. |
![]() |
|
| Furka | Mar 15 2014, 05:48 AM Post #164 |
![]() ![]()
|
I wouldn't actually compare Albertosaurus to those birds, since one is an omnivorous scavenger and the other a small animals predator. Alberto was an apex predator that hunted large animals, and this kind of animals usually require lots of food and as a consequence large territories to roam. However other apex predators have been known to congregate in some occasions, so I wouldn't rule out that chance. |
![]() |
|
| Ulquiorra | Mar 15 2014, 07:43 AM Post #165 |
![]()
|
The only raptor alive today that is know to hunt in packs is the Harris's hawk many other raptor species congregate on a carcass to scavenge. Corvids often mob larger predators, aswell as other animals that aren't a threat to them and may nest or roost in numbers. Crocodiles congregate only when there is enough food, e.g. wildebeest river crossing, and a group of crocs may feed on the same carcass, but crocodile group feeding habits are a benefit than a pack hunt, as a single individual croc feeding from a large floating carcass won't be able to rip pieces off without the carcass rolling around when the croc performs the death roll. Multiple crocs are needing to prevent the carcass rolling while the crocs feed. that group of tyrannosaurs could've been there for multiple reasons as already stated. A dead individual creating a predator trap luring in more of its kind, a flood washing multiple individuals into that area is another likely explanation. Edited by Ulquiorra, Mar 15 2014, 07:48 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| 3 users reading this topic (3 Guests and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Extinct Animals & Evolution · Next Topic » |

FAQ
Search
Members
Rules
Staff PM Box
Downloads
Pointies
Groups












