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Extinct Animal Questions
Topic Started: Nov 26 2013, 10:24 PM (193,334 Views)
babehunter1324
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Incinerox
Dec 15 2015, 07:20 AM
babehunter1324
Dec 15 2015, 05:41 AM
BossMan, Jake
Dec 14 2015, 08:30 PM
Where there any other kinds of woolly rhinos living in Eurasia during the last ice age besides Elasmotherium, or Coelodonta?
Stephanorhinus sp. (also known as Merck's Rhinoceros) was likely somewhat woolly (it was closselly related to the Sumatran Rhinoceros after all). However by the last ice age it's distribution was very reduced survivng mainly in the Southern most parts of Europe (particullary Spain), it's extinction seems to had took place more or less at the same time as the extinction of the last continental Europe relict populations of Paleoloxodon....

And that was around 35,000 years ago just slightly after the beggining of the glaciar maximum and the arrival of Homo sapiens to Spain... What a happy coincidence, isn't it?


Noting as well that Stephanorhinus had several species under its name, the two relevant ones here (one of the known species was a direct ancestor of these two, and the others are unconfirmed taxonomically) are the Merck's Rhino as you pointed out, and the Narrow Nosed Rhino. While sister species genetically, they were likely divided ecologically in the same way modern black and white rhinos are, with the narrow nosed rhino browsing, and the Merck's rhino grazing. They both seem to have died out at more or less the same time towards the end of the last glacial maximum, as you said.

Hence why I didn't refer to them using the specific names and I used sp instead. Still I doubt there habitat overlapped much with that of Coelodonta or even Elasmotherium.
Edited by babehunter1324, Dec 15 2015, 10:28 AM.
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Incinerox
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Āeksiot Zaldrīzoti

You'd be right, there.

There was more distribution overlap among the Stephanorhinus species than between any of the relevant genera. Elasmotherium was more southward than Coelodonta, and those two were further east than Stephanorhinus.
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BossMan, Jake
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Son of God

Ok question regarding Dakotaraptor. I keep looking at articles saying that its the 2nd largest Dromaeosaur. Have some people forgotten about Achillobator?

It was larger then Dakotaraptor by a full meter and was estimated to be 800 pounds. Almost twice that of the 440 pound Dakotaraptor. Has more research been done on Achillobator or was Dakotaraptor bigger?
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Furka
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Incinerox
Dec 15 2015, 11:13 AM
You'd be right, there.

There was more distribution overlap among the Stephanorhinus species than between any of the relevant genera. Elasmotherium was more southward than Coelodonta, and those two were further east than Stephanorhinus.
Did any of those live in Italy by any chance ?
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Jannick
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Papua merdeka!

I believe both mentioned Stephanorhinus species (Merck's and Narrow-nosed rhinoceroses) are known from Italy, as well as the earlier S. etruscus (obviously).
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babehunter1324
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They were, but were they still around by the time of the last Ice Age as they were in Spain?

I'm not sure.
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Incinerox
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Italy, Spain, UK, Germany, Poland, the Caucasus, the Balkans, Syria and Israel were mentioned as Late Pleistocene locales for the genus.
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BossAggron
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Formerly Dilophoraptor

BossMan, Jake
Dec 15 2015, 12:55 PM
Ok question regarding Dakotaraptor. I keep looking at articles saying that its the 2nd largest Dromaeosaur. Have some people forgotten about Achillobator?

It was larger then Dakotaraptor by a full meter and was estimated to be 800 pounds. Almost twice that of the 440 pound Dakotaraptor. Has more research been done on Achillobator or was Dakotaraptor bigger?
Are you sure its not referring to Length as this "largeness" factor?
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Joe99
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Incinerox
Dec 15 2015, 07:20 AM
Joe99
Dec 15 2015, 01:22 AM
could Megalancosaurus and kin catch flying insects and reptiles like a praying mantis ( I was thinking this because The orbits were directed anteriorly, suggesting that Megalancosaurus had good binocular vision for catching animals on the wing)


I'm not entirely sold on this. Mostly because the only two ways they'd be able to catch prey in that manner would be to hang from a tree and use its arms, which didn't really have that good a reach, or use its head, which was narrow and pointed, and basically the wrong shape for increasing chances of capturing flying insects.

Instead, I have another hypothesis - it used its narrow, pointed, wedge shaped skull, in tandem with their strong front claws to eat insects that lived underneath tree bark, using its hind limbs and prehensile tail for grip while its hands and jaws did all the digging.

That being said, it does raise the question of "why would it need binocular vision, then?", which brings me to an alternative hypothesis.

What if it really was like a Triassic chameleon? Literally everything else about it was chameleon-like. Why not its tongue too?
fair enough on points it did not have a large mouth or arms unlike other animals of that have the same lifestyle

that one may be better for Drepanosaurus with its huge claws

are there anything in the skull that suggests that it that would be a cool idea
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BossMan, Jake
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Son of God

Joe99
Dec 15 2015, 07:54 PM
BossMan, Jake
Dec 15 2015, 12:55 PM
Ok question regarding Dakotaraptor. I keep looking at articles saying that its the 2nd largest Dromaeosaur. Have some people forgotten about Achillobator?

It was larger then Dakotaraptor by a full meter and was estimated to be 800 pounds. Almost twice that of the 440 pound Dakotaraptor. Has more research been done on Achillobator or was Dakotaraptor bigger?
Are you sure its not referring to Length as this "largeness" factor?
Not sure what you mean by that. If I wasn't clear I'm saying that Achillobator was 18 feet long compared to the near 16 foot Dakotaraptor
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Incinerox
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Āeksiot Zaldrīzoti

BossMan, Jake
Dec 15 2015, 10:51 PM
Joe99
Dec 15 2015, 07:54 PM
BossMan, Jake
Dec 15 2015, 12:55 PM
Ok question regarding Dakotaraptor. I keep looking at articles saying that its the 2nd largest Dromaeosaur. Have some people forgotten about Achillobator?

It was larger then Dakotaraptor by a full meter and was estimated to be 800 pounds. Almost twice that of the 440 pound Dakotaraptor. Has more research been done on Achillobator or was Dakotaraptor bigger?
Are you sure its not referring to Length as this "largeness" factor?
Not sure what you mean by that. If I wasn't clear I'm saying that Achillobator was 18 feet long compared to the near 16 foot Dakotaraptor
Truth is, we can't actually make an estimate for Achillobator.

Even though Dakotaraptor itself is known from less material, what we do have is almost exclusively data for its limbs. And those limbs suggest an animal which was comparable to Dromaeosaurus and Deinonychus in build (both animals are VERY well documented so we know exactly what sort of build they had), so we can use Dromaeosaurus to fill in the gaps and create a rough estimate for the size of the animal we're dealing with. So we can say, with caution, that Dakotaraptor was 5 to 6m long, which, by my very crude calculations, put it at about 320 to 400kg. Putting that in perspective, a Utahraptor of that kind of length was likely just short of 500kg (I bet once we get a better idea of its new proportions when the elusive paper comes out, it'll be heavier).

Achillobator isn't quite so lucky. We have slightly more material for it specifically, but it's so weirdly proportioned that we can't actually create any accurate mass estimates at this time. Its only close relative, Utahraptor, is undergoing some MAJOR changes to its known body shape (which is stupidly robust, but comparatively shorter in length to the usual depictions). Most estimates are putting it at 350kg and, again, 5-6m long. Only here it assumes a more conventional shape like previous depictions of Utahraptor. While the gracile build of Dakotaraptor might push it more towards 5.5-6m, Achillobator, assuming it follows Utahraptor's body plan, might actually get knocked down to 5m, though perhaps maintain that same weight, though again, we'd need better data on Utahraptor for this to mean anything.

That all being said, in news articles, dinosaur "size" is dictated entirely by length. Which is all people pay attention to but it's a very poor indicator on overall mass.
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BossMan, Jake
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Son of God

In dromaeosaur feather design we know now that the feathers on the head would have stopped just for the ends of the mouth forming a "beak" would the same have been true for Troodon and its kin?
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CyborgIguana
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Do we actually know that? Sounds pretty speculative IMO.
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BossMan, Jake
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Son of God

Well this video was pretty compelling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZgxXEjS0ck
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CyborgIguana
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Just saying there ARE birds today with bare faces, so I don't think it's wise to say we know for certain that all dromaeosaurids had entirely feathery heads.
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