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| Extinct Animal Questions | |
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| Topic Started: Nov 26 2013, 10:24 PM (193,292 Views) | |
| heliosphoros | May 6 2016, 02:17 PM Post #3031 |
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Why yes they are. They diverged from chickens more recently than they did from certaosaurs. Learn phylogenetics, plz. |
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| heliosphoros | May 6 2016, 02:20 PM Post #3032 |
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Estemmenosuchus is probably not a good model since A) it was semi-aquatic, B) no recent descriptions of its skin impressions exist. Fur could have appeared before or after dinocephalians, but we will NEVER know for sure. Non-therapsid sphenacodontians already had many traits associated with more derived synapsids or even mammals. Fur would hardly be a surprise at this point. |
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| heliosphoros | May 6 2016, 02:20 PM Post #3033 |
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Also, must thank several likers for the evasion. Cowardice validates my views. |
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| Yi Qi | May 6 2016, 03:18 PM Post #3034 |
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Ok, point taken, just remember not to triple (or double) post, as it is against the rules. When you want to add to a point, just edit your post. just leaving a verbal warning here.
Edited by Yi Qi, May 6 2016, 03:20 PM.
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| stargatedalek | May 6 2016, 09:51 PM Post #3035 |
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I'm not slow! That's just my moe!
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I simply preferred to let someone who knew more about this subject do the speaking instead. This just seems like a huge unknown honestly, especially since Estemmenosuchus impressions don't indicate anything in general. |
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| CyborgIguana | May 6 2016, 09:56 PM Post #3036 |
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It's not like bare skin by itself indicates a lack of integument anyway. It just means said integument rotted away before the animal could be buried. |
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| Yi Qi | May 6 2016, 10:59 PM Post #3037 |
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Considering we are dealing with a primarily semi aquatic animal, i'd say that's unlikely. I mean, to estemmenosuchus atleast, your consideration is spot on to other therapsids though. |
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| CyborgIguana | May 6 2016, 11:00 PM Post #3038 |
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Yeah, didn't say it applied to Estemmenosuchus specifically. |
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| Incinerox | May 6 2016, 11:33 PM Post #3039 |
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Āeksiot Zaldrīzoti
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As much as I'd like to keep debating the complete unknown that is sphenacodont integument, I have far more pressing issues to deal with: If you have a paleoenvironment where 50% of the known animal species there are oviraptorines (I'm currently looking at 5 goddamn oviraptorines, a therizinosaur, a hadrosaur, a euhelopodid, and a tyrannosaur), and it's supposedly quite arid, what would the comparatively high oviraptorine count mean for the environment as a whole? Like, what kind of flora was there? Why was it so favourable to oviraptorines? The only thing it explains is why the tyrannosaurid in question is built like it is. Now, I ask specifically on floras because there are none currently preserved. Which isn't helpful. Trying to keep this sorta vague because it's for small project of mine that certain people aren't supposed to know the details of yet. |
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| BossAggron | May 6 2016, 11:52 PM Post #3040 |
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Formerly Dilophoraptor
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We should keep in mind just how much Integument can vary within a small group, like, look at humans and other apes, or Elephants, Yaks and cattle, so it's very possible that one genera could have fur and another be bare. |
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| Acinonyx Jubatus | May 7 2016, 01:24 AM Post #3041 |
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I AM THE UNSHRINKWRAPPER!
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What evidence is there that Estemmenosuchus is semiaquatic? |
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| Yi Qi | May 7 2016, 01:56 AM Post #3042 |
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Mainly from its proportions (It has a low slung body typical of semi aquatic animals, think of Teleoceras and modern hippopotami for comparisson) and the fact that it's habitat was essentially a collection of flooded canals and bogs and that most if not all the fossils were found in associated river systems, some even in areas that would've been submerged, meaning this was an animal that spent atleast a good deal of time in the water. Other semi aquatic animals such as the Biarmosuchian Eotitanosuchus and the Temnospondyl Platyoposaurus are also associated with the same habitat, both also showing obvious adaptation for a semi aquatic lifestyle. |
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| Incinerox | May 7 2016, 06:15 AM Post #3043 |
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Āeksiot Zaldrīzoti
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Next question: We lack data for any and all alioramine arms and hands. Which tyrannosauroid would be the best candidate as an arm substitute of sorts? |
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| BossMan, Jake | May 7 2016, 09:53 AM Post #3044 |
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Son of God
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After reading I can say that Alioramus may be closely related to Tarbosaurus so I'd say that's an idea for your base |
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| babehunter1324 | May 7 2016, 10:39 AM Post #3045 |
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Not so sure, while Alioramus and Tarbosaurus do share some features in the jaw bones it is generally agreed that those were likely plesiomorphic and Tarbosaurus was more closely related to Tyrannosaurus rex and Lythornax than Alioramini (Maybe Quianzhousaurus change something about that, IDK). As for the best model for Alioramus forelimbs, I think I would go with an Albertosaurine. The claws themselves could be based in Timurlengia. Also I had recently see some restorations of Dryptosaurus with two fingers (though with huge claws) instead of three, idk what evidence we have in favor or against that*. (By the way, I was totally positive we knew the forelimbs anatomy of Xiangguanlong, but it turns out we don't, quite a lose when trying to reconstruct Alioramus). *Edit we have material for Digit I and Digit II but not Digit III, so it's quite possible Digit III was a reduced as in advanced Tyrannosaurines (I doubt it would be missing, considering that even Tarbosaurus had one). Edited by babehunter1324, May 7 2016, 02:01 PM.
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