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Extinct Animal Questions
Topic Started: Nov 26 2013, 10:24 PM (193,266 Views)
Incinerox
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Āeksiot Zaldrīzoti

Dinosaur fans wouldn't even exist as we know them.
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YixianIsLoveYixianIsLife
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Incinerox
Sep 11 2016, 05:41 PM
Dinosaur fans wouldn't even exist as we know them.
What do You mean?
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TheNotFakeDK
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Because the conditions of the K-Pg were changed (i.e. non-avian theropods surviving), the Butterfly Effect would have taken effect from that point on and resulted in a totally distinct timeline from our own.

The evolution of mammals in the Cenozoic, of our own species, and our intelligence isn't written in stone. By altering the starting conditions, all of our history from then on has been completely erased and would have something new in its place. In all likelihood, we wouldn't exist in a universe like that.

Even if things somehow miraculously followed the same path as our timeline, except with more dinosaurs, our history would still be unequivocally changed because of their very presence. From the very beginning of dinosaur-studies, they'd have looked at things from a completely different perspective and understanding to our own.

They wouldn't have any major awareness along the lines of "we are so lucky we have more living dinosaurs to study!" because they'd just be concerned with their own self-contained conditions. They wouldn't think about their universe being better in the same way we don't typically think of ours as being better than a universe without birds, we work with what we've got and so would they, each to their own.
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YixianIsLoveYixianIsLife
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how would the pop culture image of dinosaurs be like if those four dinosaur groups had survived into the present day? Jurassic park, Walking with Dinosaurs, the Land before Time, how would those types of Media be like in such a alternate timeline?
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Acinonyx Jubatus
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YixianIsLoveYixianIsLife
Sep 11 2016, 03:53 PM
TheNotFakeDK
Sep 11 2016, 03:38 PM
Under the miraculous, one in a gorillion odds that everything turns out exactly the same, including the evolution and development of our own species and civilisation, I think it would be pretty obvious that we'd have a much better understanding of extinct dinosaurs from the get go.

Granted, all four named clades are relatively close to birds, but they each have enough features between them to more immediately link the fossils to the living animals than with birds alone. Long bony tails, teeth, hands with discernible fingers and claws, once more complete fossils would be found the link to modern theropods would be immediate. Things like Archaeopteryx and the fossil beds in Liaoning wouldn't be any great fuss, they'd be pretty much expected.

There's all sorts of unpredictable outcomes to this scenario however, these are just some few basic things that come into my head.

tl;dr: It would be pretty different.
so basically, such a alternate timeline would be a far much better place for Dinosaur fans and the Scientific community then the timeline that We live in
Not necessarily. What's the fun in speculating and discovering if you already know everything?
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TheNotFakeDK
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YixianIsLoveYixianIsLife
Sep 11 2016, 06:14 PM
how would the pop culture image of dinosaurs be like if those four dinosaur groups had survived into the present day? Jurassic park, Walking with Dinosaurs, the Land before Time, how would those types of Media be like in such a alternate timeline?
Put simply, they probably wouldn't exist. Again, Butterfly Effect.
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YixianIsLoveYixianIsLife
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Acinonyx Jubatus
Sep 11 2016, 06:15 PM
YixianIsLoveYixianIsLife
Sep 11 2016, 03:53 PM
TheNotFakeDK
Sep 11 2016, 03:38 PM
Under the miraculous, one in a gorillion odds that everything turns out exactly the same, including the evolution and development of our own species and civilisation, I think it would be pretty obvious that we'd have a much better understanding of extinct dinosaurs from the get go.

Granted, all four named clades are relatively close to birds, but they each have enough features between them to more immediately link the fossils to the living animals than with birds alone. Long bony tails, teeth, hands with discernible fingers and claws, once more complete fossils would be found the link to modern theropods would be immediate. Things like Archaeopteryx and the fossil beds in Liaoning wouldn't be any great fuss, they'd be pretty much expected.

There's all sorts of unpredictable outcomes to this scenario however, these are just some few basic things that come into my head.

tl;dr: It would be pretty different.
so basically, such a alternate timeline would be a far much better place for Dinosaur fans and the Scientific community then the timeline that We live in
Not necessarily. What's the fun in speculating and discovering if you already know everything?
do You know just how hard it is to be a Dinosaur fan in this harsh hellhole?
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Acinonyx Jubatus
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YixianIsLoveYixianIsLife
Sep 11 2016, 06:40 PM
Acinonyx Jubatus
Sep 11 2016, 06:15 PM
YixianIsLoveYixianIsLife
Sep 11 2016, 03:53 PM
TheNotFakeDK
Sep 11 2016, 03:38 PM
Under the miraculous, one in a gorillion odds that everything turns out exactly the same, including the evolution and development of our own species and civilisation, I think it would be pretty obvious that we'd have a much better understanding of extinct dinosaurs from the get go.

Granted, all four named clades are relatively close to birds, but they each have enough features between them to more immediately link the fossils to the living animals than with birds alone. Long bony tails, teeth, hands with discernible fingers and claws, once more complete fossils would be found the link to modern theropods would be immediate. Things like Archaeopteryx and the fossil beds in Liaoning wouldn't be any great fuss, they'd be pretty much expected.

There's all sorts of unpredictable outcomes to this scenario however, these are just some few basic things that come into my head.

tl;dr: It would be pretty different.
so basically, such a alternate timeline would be a far much better place for Dinosaur fans and the Scientific community then the timeline that We live in
Not necessarily. What's the fun in speculating and discovering if you already know everything?
do You know just how hard it is to be a Dinosaur fan in this harsh hellhole?
It is not hard in the slightest. Unless for some bizarre reason you live in a society where the very thought of dinosaurs is taboo, you have no reason to complain that liking, studying and appreciating dinosaurs is difficult. It is not difficult. You have no grounds for complaint.
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CyborgIguana
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And you do realize that it's only because non-avian dinosaurs are extinct that you appreciate them so much, right? If the K-Pg event had never occurred, they would likely seem just as relatively mundane as any animal you can see at the zoo.
Edited by CyborgIguana, Sep 11 2016, 07:03 PM.
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heliosphoros
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>dinosaur fans still bitching when they have it easy.

Also, just discovered this neat study:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272791355_A_multivariate_approach_to_infer_locomotor_modes_in_Mesozoic_mammals?ev=pub_cit_inc

Among many other things, turns out Yanoconodon and Liaoconodon were semi-aquatic and had paddle-like limbs.
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YixianIsLoveYixianIsLife
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heliosphoros
Sep 11 2016, 07:27 PM
>dinosaur fans still bitching when they have it easy
You call Jurassic world, Ark survival evolved, Dinosaur revolution, Planet dinosaur, Clash of the dinosaurs, Jurassic fight club, The good dinosaur, Teenage mutant ninja turtles: blast to the past, Mesozoica, Prehistoric park, Dinosaur island and Walking with dinosaurs the movie having it easy?
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Acinonyx Jubatus
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YixianIsLoveYixianIsLife
Sep 11 2016, 11:53 PM
heliosphoros
Sep 11 2016, 07:27 PM
>dinosaur fans still bitching when they have it easy
You call Jurassic world, Ark survival evolved, Dinosaur revolution, Planet dinosaur, Clash of the dinosaurs, Jurassic fight club, The good dinosaur, Teenage mutant ninja turtles: blast to the past, Mesozoica, Prehistoric park, Dinosaur island and Walking with dinosaurs the movie having it easy?
Yes. Yes we do.

A comparable issue would be having to put smooth peanut butter on your toast instead of chunky. Or not getting the slice of cake with red icing at someone else's birthday party.

First world first world problems.
Edited by Acinonyx Jubatus, Sep 12 2016, 12:11 AM.
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Paleop
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Paleopterix

not to mention all but 2 (3?) of those have been forgotten by the mainstream.
Jurassic world and Ark:se seem to be the only ones with any sort of prevalence. (mesozoica might count, but I haven't keeping tabs on it and from what I've heard it's lost traction)

not to mention the other side of the coin:
we have Saurian, prehistoric kingdom, and if you want to count it: the public is learning dinosaurs had feathers etc. I wouldn't be surprised if in 30 years time the scaly version of the raptors will be history

to answer your question: yes, that is having it easy
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Paleodude
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YixianIsLoveYixianIsLife
Sep 11 2016, 11:53 PM
heliosphoros
Sep 11 2016, 07:27 PM
>dinosaur fans still bitching when they have it easy
You call Jurassic world, Ark survival evolved, Dinosaur revolution, Planet dinosaur, Clash of the dinosaurs, Jurassic fight club, The good dinosaur, Teenage mutant ninja turtles: blast to the past, Mesozoica, Prehistoric park, Dinosaur island and Walking with dinosaurs the movie having it easy?
Let's take a look at some of the movie's you call not having it easy:

- Jurassic World using the old dinosaurs is the least of its problems. It's a dumb movie sure but at least we got some kickass Julius Cystoni artwork for the promotional site.

- ARK is its own self contained universe. It has dragons, death worms, and an albino King Kong. Not really aiming for realism.

- Dinosaur Revolution has some breathtaking CGI but if you look at the history of the film you'd know that it was split up and cut around to bypass some costs. For feathered dinosaurs the Troodon was complete wings and the Raptorex planned for an earlier version was downy. If you're going to complain about 1 thing about a movie you'll miss out on so much more.

- Planet Dinosaur is a similar case of weird direction but they still provided nice CGI and had one of the best proportioned Spinosaurids pre-Ibrahim.

- Clash of the Dinosaurs is one that I'll give you. It is a bad documentary.

- Jurassic Fight Club is trash. But it's funny. If you get some of your more knowledgeable friendse you can all watch it and absolutely die of laughter at some of the parts. I've done it and it was too much fun.

- The Good Dinosaur is a visual masterpiece with stylized dinosaurs. You wouldn't have an icthyologist complain about the face structure of Nemo and how it looks nothing like a real clown fish. Sometimes for a story to work, things need to be changed.

- It's a 30 minute ad for a Playskool toy line. I'm not sure what you expected. However the Turtles are actually known for scientifically accurate dinosaurs. In the comic Turtles; Meet Dinosaurs you have almost every dinosaur feathered (even T.rex and speculative hadrosaurs), accurate ahzdarcids instead of generic Pteranodon, and portrays the Dinosaurs as animals instead of monsters. It's one of the best comic representations of dinosaurs I've seen in a while.

- While yes Mesozoica is kind of a train wreck you still have some kickass ass and accurate models from an old ZT2 designer named UT2. His cave lion and Megalosaurus are my personal favorites.

- Prehistoric Park is your worst example of the bunch. It's a literal continuation of WWD and WWB. While some of its models have become outdated in recent years I still believe it has the best terror bird, Smilodon, and Triceratops in main stream media. BBC even made part of an episode talk about accurate diets of Wooly Mammoths and you still complain. The show has the greatest respect for the animals and you complain about some outdated models.

- Dinosaur Island is a very cheap indie film made by one guy for his kids. The fact he took the time to make feathered dinosaurs in the first place shows he wanted to make something different. The movie might be trite but the models are still alright if a bit cheaper looking.

- Walking with Dinosaurs 3D is simply Hollywood concerned about nothing and screwing up a good movie. Simply watch the Cretaceous Cut and it's a decent silent film that focuses around an obscure formation with some beautiful visuals.

TL:DR Take the good with the bad or you'll never be happy with your life. Plain and simple.
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heliosphoros
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YixianIsLoveYixianIsLife
Sep 11 2016, 11:53 PM
heliosphoros
Sep 11 2016, 07:27 PM
>dinosaur fans still bitching when they have it easy
You call Jurassic world, Ark survival evolved, Dinosaur revolution, Planet dinosaur, Clash of the dinosaurs, Jurassic fight club, The good dinosaur, Teenage mutant ninja turtles: blast to the past, Mesozoica, Prehistoric park, Dinosaur island and Walking with dinosaurs the movie having it easy?

Yes I do, actually. At least dinosaurs athe main attraction in every single one of those.
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