Shoot a firework rocket ~ Winners!Make a forum zoo! |
| Welcome to The Round Table. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Extinct Animal Questions | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: Nov 26 2013, 10:24 PM (193,243 Views) | |
| magpiealamode | Apr 12 2017, 06:01 PM Post #3766 |
![]()
No good hero is a one-trick phony.
![]()
|
I only briefly glanced at the paper, so I can't counter all of those arguments. However, I think the preference for floodplain environments may be a false positive--they preserve fossils more readily than say, forests, and might be more likely to be the site of a mass death. |
![]() |
|
| babehunter1324 | Apr 12 2017, 06:35 PM Post #3767 |
![]()
|
"Paper" seems a bit much for a blog post ![]() As for it being an artifact I would refer you to a blog post by Don Brinkman: http://www.extinctblog.org/extinct/2016/7/11/paleoecology-in-the-badlands Ceratopsids are not only more common in absolute number in coastal enviornment but also in relative numbers. They are found more found more often and make up a bigger proportion of the total of fossils collected in areas that where close to the shoreline. |
![]() |
|
| Incinerox | Apr 13 2017, 02:33 PM Post #3768 |
![]()
Āeksiot Zaldrīzoti
![]()
|
"Floodplain" is hardly an apt environmental description. All it means is that the land was flat, and there was at least one major river running through it, and that flooding was a possibility. The surrounding environment could have been literally anything - scrubby plains, conifer forests, nothing but dirt, steamy swamp, ANYTHING. Most of the Amazon Rainforest is just as much a floodplain as many of Australia's desert regions. As for how this affects ceratopsids, here's a simple thought. Have any of you tried walking through water, about waist or shoulder deep, while holding out a board of some kind, broadside? It's ****ing difficult. This is what a ceratopsid would have to deal with if it went underwater. Every time. Edited by Incinerox, Apr 13 2017, 02:40 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| babehunter1324 | Apr 13 2017, 04:38 PM Post #3769 |
![]()
|
To be fair some aquatic animals like the Mata-Mata have some pretty extensive (if much more hidrodynamic) head gear and they are still among the most aquatic freshwater turtles. Other animals like hippos and Caseids have bodies that look extremelly draggy but that was not an issue for an amphibious lifestyle. |
![]() |
|
| Furka | Apr 13 2017, 05:02 PM Post #3770 |
![]() ![]()
|
Turtles like Mata-Mata spend most of the time just lying on the floor, so they don't really care about dragging because they don't move much. |
![]() |
|
| stargatedalek | Apr 13 2017, 05:17 PM Post #3771 |
|
I'm not slow! That's just my moe!
![]()
|
Nor would an herbivore that walked along the bottom care. If anything it matters more for Mata-Mata because they do actually need to swim, even if not constantly, as walking along the bottom just isn't efficient enough for such a small animal. A large herbivore would only need to swim to enter and exit the water or get air. Also way to ignore that coasts are the main point and focus on the subjectivity of what defines floodplains. Great deflection everyone. Most of the "floodplains" in question are coastal marshes. So there, they were found in coasts and coastal marshes. |
![]() |
|
| Jannick | Apr 13 2017, 06:13 PM Post #3772 |
![]()
Papua merdeka!
![]()
|
I'm not entirely sure about Duane's hypothesis as a whole (it seems a little hasty - more data would be nice) but I don't fully agree with your analogy here, assuming you're trying to say the frill would cause too much drag. Ceratopsian frills don't exactly jut out perpendicular to the profile of the face and the body, and especially in those species that are known from massive bone beds (Centrosaurus, Einiosaurus, Pachyrhinosaurus) the frill extends backwards from the skull, rather than upwards, in a smooth line. Even the species with more cumbersome frills such as Pentaceratops would not need to tilt their heads back very far to lay their frills flat(ish) against their back. Actually, now that I think of it; the frills might even make the animals more hydrodynamic as the water is guided in a smooth line over the head, neck and shoulders right on to the back, effectively making the animal bullet-shaped in the water. Interesting topic that I would really like to see researched more. |
![]() |
|
| Acinonyx Jubatus | Apr 13 2017, 06:24 PM Post #3773 |
![]()
I AM THE UNSHRINKWRAPPER!
![]()
|
Let's talk Hadrosaurs for a moment. They had that funny little pinky finger thing on their front hooves- was this prehensile? Would they have been able to pick things up with them or grab and drag to their mouths? If not, what were they for? Also, would Saurolophines been better suited to a grazing or a browsing lifestyle? Oh, and also, what ZT2 biome would best fit the Horseshoe Canyon formation? Edited by Acinonyx Jubatus, Apr 13 2017, 06:27 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| BossAggron | Apr 13 2017, 07:05 PM Post #3774 |
|
Formerly Dilophoraptor
![]()
|
Theres the issue of weight and the downturned nature of Ceratopsian heads, quote from this post
I don't know why it disappeared, but an image similar to this accompanied the post in that section somewhere as well, and this has them at full lung capacity.
|
![]() |
|
| magpiealamode | Apr 13 2017, 08:00 PM Post #3775 |
![]()
No good hero is a one-trick phony.
![]()
|
Once again, separate topic for this subject? Although imo, BossAggron (do you still go by Dilo?) shut it down. Poor AJ asked a question and has been ignored. Anyway @AJ, I imagine hadrosaur pinkies function kind of like giraffe tongues, to pull foliage towards the mouth. Just a hypothesis, though. Edited by magpiealamode, Apr 13 2017, 08:04 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Furka | Apr 14 2017, 02:41 AM Post #3776 |
![]() ![]()
|
IIRC Saurolophinaes had broader beaks than Lambeosaurinae, so I'd say either grazers or a mixture of both. A browser would likely have a narrower beak, allowing it to be more "picky" when selecting foliage. |
![]() |
|
| Acinonyx Jubatus | Apr 15 2017, 03:08 PM Post #3777 |
![]()
I AM THE UNSHRINKWRAPPER!
![]()
|
What was the environment like on the west coast of Laramidia during the latest Maastrichtian? |
![]() |
|
| Incinerox | Apr 16 2017, 01:54 PM Post #3778 |
![]()
Āeksiot Zaldrīzoti
![]()
|
You know what, this is actually totally uncharted territory for me. But I did find a good place to start!
|
![]() |
|
| Acinonyx Jubatus | Apr 16 2017, 06:00 PM Post #3779 |
![]()
I AM THE UNSHRINKWRAPPER!
![]()
|
Lots of Ankylosaurs and Hadrosaurs, but relatively few Ceratopsians... What might that suggest? |
![]() |
|
| nashd1 | Apr 16 2017, 10:18 PM Post #3780 |
![]()
|
Duane Nash here, author of the post. "and would it have even mattered in the lifestyle he's describing here?" Bingo. The frill would not have mattered because I am not suggesting a semi-aquatic or amphibious mode of life for ceratopsids. Read the post again and especially the first sentence I write after the intro paragraph. I say several times in the post that I am suggesting a negative-buoyancy, bottom punting mode of aquatic locomotion is a possible mode of movement for some of the denser ornithischians (esp ankylosaurian, ceratopsians) as a consequence of their top side adaptations i.e. thick skin to thwart theropods and intraspecific combat. Hence my mention of the especially thick skin as revealed in psittacosaurus. Also why I omit mention of Ludusaurus which may in fact be an amphibious ornithischian. Not the first time someone misinterpreted the post and certainly not the last. Don't go into it with such binary notions of terrestrial vs aquatic and you might get more of where I am coming from. Useful analogy: caribou - most certainly are terrestrial - yet their hollow hairs (for insulation) and wide splaying hooves (for muddy, snowy terrain) certainly help them in crossing bodies of water. So we can see how the hollow hairs aid in buoyancy and big hooves act as paddles. Not explicitly aquatic adaptations but certainly help them cross bodies of water. Best, Duane |
![]() |
|
| 2 users reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Extinct Animals & Evolution · Next Topic » |

FAQ
Search
Members
Rules
Staff PM Box
Downloads
Pointies
Groups














caribou - most certainly are terrestrial - yet their hollow hairs (for insulation) and wide splaying hooves (for muddy, snowy terrain) certainly help them in crossing bodies of water. So we can see how the hollow hairs aid in buoyancy and big hooves act as paddles. Not explicitly aquatic adaptations but certainly help them cross bodies of water.
