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Extinct Animal Questions
Topic Started: Nov 26 2013, 10:24 PM (193,242 Views)
nashd1
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magpiealamode
Apr 12 2017, 03:49 PM
Duane's back at it, I see.
I have a gut feeling that most ceratopsians could not make it underwater. Too many bells and whistles, especially on their frills. For me it's pretty much a no. Any animal today that spends a considerable amount of time underwater has a smaller/more hydrodynamic head.
I fear you have misinterpreted my post as several others have, read my reply to Acinonyx or better yet, reread the post and see that I never actually suggest that ceratopsids or ankylosaurids were semi-aquatic animals - merely that their density may have necessitated a bottom-punting hippo-ike movement throughout the water.

"Duane's back at it, I see."

Hmmm, I sense you don't approve of me. Well, regardless I'm OK with people not agreeing with me or suspending judgement. Let's just not misrepresent the argument I am actually making OK :grinch:
… it gets me feeling a little… salty. D:
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magpiealamode
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No good hero is a one-trick phony.

Ahaha, my apologies if I came across that way. I have nothing against you, although I was recently thrown into an existential crisis by your sabertooth post. I find your blog pretty interesting, actually. I did admit later that I didn't really read the blog post, just scanned it, so I am quite sure now that I misinterpreted.

I relate to the salt, as you can see by my member title. Perhaps that would happen less if I took the time to slow down and actually read before running my keyboard :P
Edited by magpiealamode, Apr 16 2017, 10:45 PM.
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Acinonyx Jubatus
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nashd1
Apr 16 2017, 10:18 PM
Acinonyx Jubatus
Apr 12 2017, 03:03 PM
http://antediluviansalad.blogspot.ca/2017/04/sinking-ornithoscelidians-sitting-ducks.html

This is definitely an interesting and thought-provoking article, and while I'm definitely going to take it with a grain of salt, the thing I want to know is this: what were the hydrodynamic capabilities of Ceratopsid frills? And would it have even mattered in the lifestyle he's describing here?
Duane Nash here, author of the post. "and would it have even mattered in the lifestyle he's describing here?"

Bingo. The frill would not have mattered because I am not suggesting a semi-aquatic or amphibious mode of life for ceratopsids. Read the post again and especially the first sentence I write after the intro paragraph. I say several times in the post that I am suggesting a negative-buoyancy, bottom punting mode of aquatic locomotion is a possible mode of movement for some of the denser ornithischians (esp ankylosaurian, ceratopsians) as a consequence of their top side adaptations i.e. thick skin to thwart theropods and intraspecific combat. Hence my mention of the especially thick skin as revealed in psittacosaurus. Also why I omit mention of Ludusaurus which may in fact be an amphibious ornithischian.

Not the first time someone misinterpreted the post and certainly not the last. Don't go into it with such binary notions of terrestrial vs aquatic and you might get more of where I am coming from. Useful analogy: :deer: caribou - most certainly are terrestrial - yet their hollow hairs (for insulation) and wide splaying hooves (for muddy, snowy terrain) certainly help them in crossing bodies of water. So we can see how the hollow hairs aid in buoyancy and big hooves act as paddles. Not explicitly aquatic adaptations but certainly help them cross bodies of water. :yes:

Best, Duane
Excuse me, I'm still a little confused. Just so we're perfectly clear: you're not suggesting that they habitually lived a semiaquatic lifestyle a la Tapirs or Hippos, but that they did utilize a similar method of underwater locomotion (punting) when circumstances demanded it?

Big fan of your Plesiosaur machinations series, by the way.
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magpiealamode
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No good hero is a one-trick phony.

Like I said earlier: separate topic?

Although that is technically an extinct animal question.
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BossMan, Jake
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Son of God

How old are the specimens for the oldest confirmed Spinosaurus remains? Because I'm hearing stuff now that they were older then the estimates from what I can remember
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babehunter1324
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Was Rhabdodon mainly quadrupedal or bipedal? Most of the skeletal reconstructions in museums show it as a quadrupedal with a Tenontosaurus like tail, however looking at more up to date skeletal reconstructions of several of it's relatives (Zalmoxes, Muttaburrasaurus) I wonder if it was more bipedal and shorter-tailed and I wonder if the current reconstructions are a result of a false consensus.
Edited by babehunter1324, Apr 26 2017, 03:02 AM.
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Incinerox
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Āeksiot Zaldrīzoti

Based off what I seemed to gather on Tenontosaurus's hands, they were bipedal.
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AnimalGenius
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Just a ZT Youtuber

According this this websiteit says that the Rhabdodon was similar to the Tenontosaurus in being a quadruped.
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heliosphoros
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Yeah, no. Dinopedia is objectively garbage
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Ulquiorra
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After seeing this in Sam's projects, and looking at other sauropod reconstructions, does anyone know how did the fat, "slug" necked sauropod reconstructions became a thing?

http://thezt2roundtable.com/single/?p=10036773&t=10804450
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magpiealamode
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No good hero is a one-trick phony.

Well there's this painting by Mark Witton:
Posted Image
He said he liked the idea of sauropods (apatosaurines in particular I guess) using gigantic, chubby necks as weapons in intraspecific combat.
If there's a basis before that, I'm not sure what it is. I'd have to go look it up.
Edited by magpiealamode, Apr 26 2017, 11:14 AM.
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babehunter1324
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To be fair though even if the neck was covered in the thinnest layer of tissue possible it would still be pretty damn tall and wide.

Posted Image

In essence if you see a thin necked Apatosaurine sauropod in paleoart that means that the author didn't even pay attention to the animal's skeleton.

Also I would wagger that if Incinerox comment on Tenontosaurus forelimbs is true then it's more like that Rhabdodon was bipedal though it may have foraged or rest in all fours (which seems to be the case with Camptosaurus and other Rhabdodontids).
Edited by babehunter1324, Apr 26 2017, 11:15 AM.
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AnimalGenius
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They look like giant caterpillars on top of fat bodies. :P
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Acinonyx Jubatus
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AnimalGenius
Apr 26 2017, 02:27 PM
They look like giant caterpillars on top of fat bodies. :P
When this hypothesis first came out, there were quite a few jokes made about that very fact.

Posted Image
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AnimalGenius
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Spoiler: click to toggle

That is great! I did some more research about these guys and found this picture about a sauropod which they titled: "Apatosaur inflato-porcupine fish neck-bag" Posted Image
and this one:
Posted Image
Posted Image
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