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Extinct Animal Questions
Topic Started: Nov 26 2013, 10:24 PM (193,223 Views)
Incinerox
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Āeksiot Zaldrīzoti

54godamora
May 25 2018, 01:32 PM
main location for the setting of an RP im doing with a friend regarding this environment is inland since the fossil record for tendaguru doesn't show any evidence of coastal aninmals...unless you count tendaguruipterus

oh and could ceratosaurus swim?
Irrelevant. Tendaguru itself has well documented geological and microfossil evidence that puts the area by the coast.

And Ceratosaurus was not any better or worse a swimmer than other theropods. The "hurr it had a fat tail therefore it used it to swim" meme needs to die in a fire.
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Posted Image Flish
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the "Ceratosaurus lived in swamps" and "Ceratosaurus had bone-crushing jaws" memes need to die in a fire. Ceratosaurus has many paleomemes that need to end.
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Incinerox
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I didn't even know "bone crushing jaws" Ceratosaurus was a thing at all.
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I've seen many, many people think for some reason because it has a boxy skull it must be a bone crusher. The Isle has actually based its entire existence in the game around how it "crushes bones for marrow".
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Furka
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I've seen at least one instance where it was assumed because the side view of its jaw with teeth somewhat resemble a Tyrannosaur.
Edited by Furka, May 26 2018, 12:04 PM.
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Galliwasp
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There is a way out. Just not for you.

It's not just that it had a deep tail, it's that its tail was more flexible than that of any other theropod, its body was lower-slung than those of allosaurids and its remains frequently show up in the swampier areas of the Morrison, ergo it was semi-aquatic and hunted fish and crocodiles. It's one of Bakker's ideas.

I'm one to defend unconventional hypotheses - I don't think it's that improbable, so long as one accepts that the animal was adapted to life in a variety of habitats and was hardly exclusively aquatic (even if it may have preferred the water). I can imagine it living somewhat similarly to a jaguar or a bengal tiger.
Edited by Galliwasp, May 28 2018, 04:15 AM.
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Incinerox
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Galliwasp
May 28 2018, 03:43 AM
It's not just that it had a deep tail, it's that its tail was more flexible than that of any other theropod,
This is catagorically untrue. Its tail was no more or less flexible than any non-tetanuran theropod save for derived abelisaurids. Tetanurans and abelisaurids independently evolved features that stiffened the tail, not that Ceratosaurus evolved a more flexible one.

its body was lower-slung than those of allosaurids
Two words: Majungasaurus crenatissimus.

And more words because I can: If we're gonna talk adaptations to aquatic habitats and piscivory, its teeth are probably the [/i]worst[/i] shape for dealing with fish without them being adapted for eating shellfish or leaves.


and its remains frequently show up in the swampier areas of the Morrison,
Again, catagorically untrue. Contrary to the paper by Bakker in 2004 you refer to, a 2006 paper concluded that Ceratosaurus and Allosaurus shared terrestrial habitats. It has no more reason to be a semi-aquatic animal than either of its two major competitors. I recall a paper that actually states the opposite: Ceratosaurus was common in drier areas of Morrison (I don't have it on me so I'll be sure to find it somewhere). Of the three, the most likely candidate for semi-aquatic living is Torvosaurus, given that we know what happened to its more derived relatives.

ergo it was semi-aquatic and hunted fish and crocodiles.
Ergo nothing.

It's one of Bakker's ideas.
Because Bakker's the bastion of rational hypotheses that stuck, like galloping chasmosaurines, trunked sauropods and Nanotyrannus being a valid genus.

I'm one to defend unconventional hypotheses - I don't think it's that improbable, so long as one accepts that the animal was adapted to life in a variety of habitats and was hardly exclusively aquatic (even if it may have preferred the water). I can imagine it living somewhat similarly to a jaguar or a bengal tiger.
This straight up counters your initial point that it was actually semi-aquatic and hunted aquatic prey items. "My very specific point is not improbable on the condition that you interpret my point in literally the vaguest and disconnected way from my argument".
I shall say it again: semi-aquatic Ceratosaurus is a bad meme that needs to die.
Edited by Incinerox, May 28 2018, 02:53 PM.
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I was gonna say it but I saw you typing and thought you'd probably say it better
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Furka
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AFAIK the Morrison wasn't an environment very rich in large fish either, I can only remember lungfish as something woth the attention of a large predator.
Perhaps near the northern sea the situation was different, but since we find Cerato in southern locations it doesn't seem to have mattered at all.
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Acinonyx Jubatus
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I AM THE UNSHRINKWRAPPER!

Which groups of Therapsids were endothermic? I keep finding conflicting resources; some say Endothermy goes as far back as Ophiacodon, others say it didn't happen until very derived Cynodonts came along. Who to believe?
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stargatedalek
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I'm not slow! That's just my moe!

Acinonyx Jubatus
May 28 2018, 06:58 PM
Which groups of Therapsids were endothermic? I keep finding conflicting resources; some say Endothermy goes as far back as Ophiacodon, others say it didn't happen until very derived Cynodonts came along. Who to believe?
I don't see any reason that endothermy in some form couldn't go back to their common ancestor with archosaurs. Do we even know if ectothermy in modern reptiles evolved secondarily or not?
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Acinonyx Jubatus
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I AM THE UNSHRINKWRAPPER!

stargatedalek
May 28 2018, 08:56 PM
Acinonyx Jubatus
May 28 2018, 06:58 PM
Which groups of Therapsids were endothermic? I keep finding conflicting resources; some say Endothermy goes as far back as Ophiacodon, others say it didn't happen until very derived Cynodonts came along. Who to believe?
I don't see any reason that endothermy in some form couldn't go back to their common ancestor with archosaurs. Do we even know if ectothermy in modern reptiles evolved secondarily or not?
Thank you. Unfortunately, while speculation is nice and all, in this case I need something more concrete.
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Incinerox
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Āeksiot Zaldrīzoti

Therein lies the problem, unfortunately.

We have nothing really to work from at this point on the subject.
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Acinonyx Jubatus
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I AM THE UNSHRINKWRAPPER!

Incinerox
May 29 2018, 12:01 AM
Therein lies the problem, unfortunately.

We have nothing really to work from at this point on the subject.
All right, fair enough. That's pretty much what I expected. Thank you!
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54godamora
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question: did dromaeosaurs hunt in packs or was it more like mobbing behavior?
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