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Extinct Animal Questions
Topic Started: Nov 26 2013, 10:24 PM (193,398 Views)
Sergio
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sayori best girl

I know this is related to ZT2, but it's also related to extinct animals: Which of these Tyrannosaurus remakes would be considered the most acurate? (UT2's is sightly larger ingame)
Bill's

UT2's
Edited by Sergio, May 14 2015, 11:38 PM.
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Anas Platyrhynchos
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The Quacky Canine

No hate to any of them. But I would say Bills. Since it uses DM's theropod animations, it has emu feathers and more bald areas, and just to let you know UT2 has gotten much better since he made that Tyrannosaurus. So it's not his best compared to his current work and he is remaking it because of that. So I would say Bills Tyrannosaurus is more Accurate
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Furka
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Both are fine, it just depends on your taste.
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Incinerox
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Āeksiot Zaldrīzoti

Anas platyrhynchos
May 15 2015, 06:40 AM
No hate to any of them. But I would say Bills. Since it uses DM's theropod animations, it has emu feathers and more bald areas, and just to let you know UT2 has gotten much better since he made that Tyrannosaurus. So it's not his best compared to his current work and he is remaking it because of that. So I would say Bills Tyrannosaurus is more Accurate
I'm sorry, I'm going to have to stop you right there.

For a start, UT2's has actually got the same amount of feather coverage, and although his alpha work on that particular mesh could use a bit of work, he's at least attempted to add some extra depth to the feathering.

Next, neither of those images actually shows the animations in action, so I will not comment on DM's theropod animations. Only that if they're the same ones he used for his WWD packs, they're accurate only to WWD and are not neccesarily accurate to the actual animal. And I don't know what animations UT2 actually uses these days.

But based off the renders themselves, they differ in one critical aspect. UT2's T.rex seems to actually be based directly off Hartman's skeletal references. Everything is technically accurate, from the skull shape to the feet, general proportions, the lot. I think he could have fleshed out the thigh and the m. caudofemoralis a bit more, but most of the errors are animation distortion around the lower legs.

What I do like about Bill's is that his textures are a lot clearer. He's not thrown as much detail as he could into any single spot, so parts like the face's texture on his T.rex are a lot more effective than the feather texture of UT2's T. rex flanks, for example.

But if we're going with technical accuracy, UT2's actually paid attention to skeletal and muscle anatomy from all angles and seems to have had direct skeletal references on hand. So his is quite simply more accurate.

I'm going by observations here. I do not intend to come across as harsh on either designer and if what I say about this bothers anyone, I apologise in advance.
Edited by Incinerox, May 15 2015, 08:22 AM.
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Ulquiorra
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Also on the subject of ZT2 and extinct animals, what biomes would be the most suitable for the following species?

Gallimimus
Anserimimus
Struthiomimus
Sinornithomimus
Pelecanimimus

I'm guessing both Gallimimus and Anserimimus would be wetlands, remains of both have been found in the Nemegt Formation, and, although that formation is in the Gobi desert, at the time Gallimimus was alive the area was alot wetter than today.

On the topic of extinct animals only, did dinosaurs, Pterosaurs and the marine reptiles have a set breeding season or were they capable of breeding throughout the year?
Edited by Ulquiorra, May 16 2015, 10:22 AM.
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Incinerox
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Lets break this one down:

Gallimimus and Anserimimus - I'll group these together. As you've said Nemegt Formation was far wetter than other times and places of end-Cretaceous Asia, and we know that there were many rivers, lakes and mudflats present. BUT, there's also the presence of petrified wood, suggesting a degree of forest cover. Enough plant material to sustain some pretty large animals. So I'd throw in Wetlands or Temperate, or Temperate Rainforest if you have that at your disposal. Maybe even mix up the compatibility between them. One thing is that given the larger size and short, stubby toes of Gallimimus, it probably stuck to more solid ground. I don't know whether this applies as much to Anserimimus though. I'm leaning towards temperate with high Wetland compatability on this one.

Struthiomimus - This genus lasted quite a long time, with three species in Laramidia stretching from 75Ma in Dinosaur Park Formation (S. altus), right the way through to Hell Creek, 66Ma (S. sedens). If you intend to use S. altus, I'd go for Temperate Rainforest, with S. sedens using basic Temperate. However, if you plan on sticking with base game biomes, go Temperate Forest. And I'd say exactly the same thing about Ornithomimus.

Sinornithomimus - I honestly don't know what to say about this one. Other than the 4 dinosaur types you can find in the Ulansuhai Formation, I have absolutely no data to work with for this. Sinornithomimus had a rather short neck even with its long legs, so I'm gonna assume that it wasn't exactly grazing or spending a lot of its time with its head near ground level, so I'm thinkin it was neither a dabbler, nor a grazer. I'm somewhat tempted to say that we're dealing with deciduous-conifer mixed dry forests or something. Climate-wise, probably Scrubland would be yer best bet. That said, ornithomimids aren't particularly fond of ARID areas, so take my word with a pinch of salt.

Pelecanimimus - It's definitely worth putting this guy in Wetlands. Large numbers of fish and aquatic crocodylomorphs, and the high number of exceptionally preseved fossils with soft tissues (from Pelecanimimus's crest to Concavenator's scales and Eoalulavis with articulated feathers) suggest an area with large amounts of water and rapid burial rates. All of which point towards a very wet environment indeed. So yeh, Las Hoyas was likely a swamp.

As for breeding seasons, we literally have no means of testing this properly. HOWEVER, given that many sauropod and hadrosaur nests have been found in mass burial grounds, it's likely that they at least had distinct, coordinated breeding seasons. Like modern herding animals today. Beyond that, it's difficult to say. Predators likely coordinated their breeding cycles around regular prey. Solitary, nomadic animals probably mated whenever they stumbled upon a suitable mate, and which extinct species fit into that catagory is very hard to establish.
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Ulquiorra
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Incinerox
May 16 2015, 01:55 PM
Lets break this one down:

Gallimimus and Anserimimus - I'll group these together. As you've said Nemegt Formation was far wetter than other times and places of end-Cretaceous Asia, and we know that there were many rivers, lakes and mudflats present. BUT, there's also the presence of petrified wood, suggesting a degree of forest cover. Enough plant material to sustain some pretty large animals. So I'd throw in Wetlands or Temperate, or Temperate Rainforest if you have that at your disposal. Maybe even mix up the compatibility between them. One thing is that given the larger size and short, stubby toes of Gallimimus, it probably stuck to more solid ground. I don't know whether this applies as much to Anserimimus though. I'm leaning towards temperate with high Wetland compatability on this one.

Struthiomimus - This genus lasted quite a long time, with three species in Laramidia stretching from 75Ma in Dinosaur Park Formation (S. altus), right the way through to Hell Creek, 66Ma (S. sedens). If you intend to use S. altus, I'd go for Temperate Rainforest, with S. sedens using basic Temperate. However, if you plan on sticking with base game biomes, go Temperate Forest. And I'd say exactly the same thing about Ornithomimus.

Sinornithomimus - I honestly don't know what to say about this one. Other than the 4 dinosaur types you can find in the Ulansuhai Formation, I have absolutely no data to work with for this. Sinornithomimus had a rather short neck even with its long legs, so I'm gonna assume that it wasn't exactly grazing or spending a lot of its time with its head near ground level, so I'm thinkin it was neither a dabbler, nor a grazer. I'm somewhat tempted to say that we're dealing with deciduous-conifer mixed dry forests or something. Climate-wise, probably Scrubland would be yer best bet. That said, ornithomimids aren't particularly fond of ARID areas, so take my word with a pinch of salt.

Pelecanimimus - It's definitely worth putting this guy in Wetlands. Large numbers of fish and aquatic crocodylomorphs, and the high number of exceptionally preseved fossils with soft tissues (from Pelecanimimus's crest to Concavenator's scales and Eoalulavis with articulated feathers) suggest an area with large amounts of water and rapid burial rates. All of which point towards a very wet environment indeed. So yeh, Las Hoyas was likely a swamp.
Thankyou Incinerox for the info :D

The Struthiomimus I've made is S. altus and I guess I'll make the Sinornithomimus main biome Temperate forest and make it Boreal and Scrub compatible, and if it's a possibility, maybe Mediterranean Scrub compatible.
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Incinerox
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Āeksiot Zaldrīzoti

I wouldn't advise putting ANY dinosaur in Boreal to be honest.

Well... MAYBE Siberian dinosaurs, and MAYBE Australian and Antarctic dinosaurs.

But bear in mind that Boreal as an actual biome is by no means synonymous with "coniferous forest". It has to be bloody cold as well.
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Ulquiorra
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In that case either Temperate scrub/med scrub or tropical dry forest (I forgot about this biome) for the Sinornithomimus?
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Paleop
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Paleopterix

Incinerox
May 16 2015, 06:31 PM
I wouldn't advise putting ANY dinosaur in Boreal to be honest.

Well... MAYBE Siberian dinosaurs, and MAYBE Australian and Antarctic dinosaurs.

But bear in mind that Boreal as an actual biome is by no means synonymous with "coniferous forest". It has to be bloody cold as well.
so temperate forest can be both deciduous forest and coniferous forest .....

Edit: there needs to be more temperate forest biome pine trees

if I may ask what would utahraptor's and nothronychus .g's biomes be?
Edited by Paleop, May 16 2015, 09:10 PM.
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Orthoceras
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Nothronychus was found in the Moreno hill formation, which has a large deposit of petrified wood and coal. Also, turtles and crocodiles were found throughout the Zuni basin as a whole. I'd say either Temperate Forest or Temperate Rainforest, maybe even Wetlands (The former 2 would probably be the best choices). It was probably warm, humid, and coastal too.

I don't know about Utahraptor though... I think it lived before the Western Interior Seaway formed in North America. I'll let the expert handle that one (Incinerox).
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Incinerox
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Āeksiot Zaldrīzoti

Simply put, Utahraptor lived in a very seasonal, subtropical dry forest type of area. The dominant plants were cypress-LIKE plants, pencil pines and particularly weird tree-ferns.

Nothronychus probably lived in temperate rainforests as well. That said, we don't have that much material from the locations of either species. But for a long time it's looking like that stretch of coastline got quite forested. Further south, and you'd definitely be looking at swampy areas.
Edited by Incinerox, May 17 2015, 10:04 AM.
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Paleop
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Paleopterix

since the iguanodon genus was split I'm confused at what is iguanodon and what isn't also where

thank you :)
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CyborgIguana
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Iguanodon now contains only the type species from England IIRC (I. bernissartensis). All other former species have been reassigned to other genera.
Edited by CyborgIguana, May 17 2015, 10:05 PM.
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Incinerox
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Iguanodon bernissartensis is only actually known from Belgium. But there are fragments attributed to I. bernissartensis in the UK. And there are possible fragments scattered across Europe which are dubious but possibly I. bernissartensis as well. If all of THOSE hold up, it seems likely that Iguanodon was fairly widespread across Europe as a whole.

There's a second, dubious species, Iguanodon orientalis from Mongolia, but it's unlikely this species is second Iguanodon. Although if it is, it has interesting connotations for ecosystems that sit between Europe and Mongolia.

But yeh, most of what we know of Iguanodon was split into well over a dozen species. The American representatives were the first to go. But many of the European remains once thought to be Iguanodon were actually related taxon, but some were hadrosaurs, and others jurassic ornithopods.
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